4 ms·

I find it more interesting how the term "hacker" has evolved into becoming a positive value term. I wonder if the term "hacker" is still considered positive at

I find it more interesting how the term "hacker" has evolved into becoming a positive value term. I wonder if the term "hacker" is still considered positive at the adolescent stage, or is it just a business class perspective?

treehau5 10y ago
It was always a positive term until mainstream media decided to depict the person in the back ski mask typing really fast and stealing bank accounts as a "hacker" I like rms's definition https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/rms-hack.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/rms-hack.en.html
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  It wasn't just the mainstream media deciding out of nowhere to apply the label to an unrelated group; there was a substantial criminal element in hacker culture, and it was through that element that hacker culture became visible, and so that's why "hacker" got stuck on computer criminals.
analog31 10y ago
I think it started as a positive term, but has been given a negative connotation. I've cautioned my kids to avoid using the term for themselves.
malkia 10y ago
It'll always have two meanings to me, no matter what. Not the same, but the word pirate - has also two, or maybe three meanings - the really bad old pirate, the mythical "good" pirate, and the modern day (most of them Somalian) pirates. A hacker is just someone who does not respect boundaries, be it what could be done, and what should not be done, and then more. Just a hacky definition I just came up with :)
- LeifCarrotson 10y ago
  Where does a modern digital or intellectual-property pirate fit into that spectrum?
  - malkia 10y ago
    Ah, good catch!
  - jordigh 10y ago
    In (Québec?) French, "pirate informatique" is the term used for malicious security breaker. I rather like that. I'm not sure what phrase is used for people who share copyrighted materials online, but probably informally "pirate" is also used.
- taejo 10y ago
  > modern day (most of them Somalian) pirates. I think your information is out of date. In 2015, 60% of piracy incidents were in South-East Asia. http://www.agcs.allianz.com/insights/white-papers-and-case-studies/safety-and-shipping-review-2016/ http://www.agcs.allianz.com/insights/white-papers-and-case-s...
skybrian 10y ago
The positive usage of "hacker" has deep roots. The author of this article wrote a classic book that documents the early scene. https://www.amazon.com/Hackers-Computer-Revolution-Steven-Levy/dp/1449388396 https://www.amazon.com/Hackers-Computer-Revolution-Steven-Le...
anonemouse145 10y ago
Hacker always was positive. It gained popularity to mean the people who played around with hardware to make home computers before the PC became a commercial product, or who found novel ways to play around with the phone system- like you could record and play back touch tone sounds on a tape recorder to make calls. The negative connotation came from the bust of Kevin Mitnick and the American public's shameful lack of knowledge about computers, combined with 1984 style propaganda to scare the public. Hacker or hacking always meant someone who approaches problems in novel ways. Cracker, like a safe cracker, is someone who breaks in for malicious reasons. The kids on 4chan who follow a guide to DDOS a website are script kiddies, by the way. That's what these terms always meant, and we're starting to move back after an era of propaganda.
baldfat 10y ago
Hacker (computer) originally was a positive term. The stupid mainstream in the mid to late 80s corrupted a great word. I had a few friends get arrested for accidentally calling a Pentagon and then try and figure out if they could see what the server was for. I don't think they were called Hackers but that was 1985 and this story happened in 1983 http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/11/tech/computer-hacker-essay-414s/ http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/11/tech/computer-hacker-essay-414... The Jargon File, a glossary for computer programmers that was launched in 1975, lists eight definitions for “hacker.” The first reads, “A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary.” The following six are equally approving. The eighth, and last, is “[deprecated] A malicious meddler who tries to discover sensitive information by poking around. Hence password hacker, network hacker. The correct term for this sense is cracker.” http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/a-short-history-of-hack http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/a-short-history-of-ha...
watwut 10y ago
Except on hacker news, I associated hacker with someone who produce low quality code - hack is a dirty trick that does job at hand but breaks architecture and will likely cause problems in the future. Back when I was younger, people who references to themselves as hacker (or were referenced as such by others) were usually not trustworthy.
defgeneric 10y ago
In the golfing classes it's still a negative term, e.g. "the Sunday hackers are out tearing up the course today."

treehau5 10y ago

It was always a positive term until mainstream media decided to depict the person in the back ski mask typing really fast and stealing bank accounts as a "hacker" I like rms's definition https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/rms-hack.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/rms-hack.en.html

dragonwriter 10y ago
It wasn't just the mainstream media deciding out of nowhere to apply the label to an unrelated group; there was a substantial criminal element in hacker culture, and it was through that element that hacker culture became visible, and so that's why "hacker" got stuck on computer criminals.

analog31 10y ago

I think it started as a positive term, but has been given a negative connotation. I've cautioned my kids to avoid using the term for themselves.

malkia 10y ago

It'll always have two meanings to me, no matter what. Not the same, but the word pirate - has also two, or maybe three meanings - the really bad old pirate, the mythical "good" pirate, and the modern day (most of them Somalian) pirates. A hacker is just someone who does not respect boundaries, be it what could be done, and what should not be done, and then more. Just a hacky definition I just came up with :)

LeifCarrotson 10y ago
Where does a modern digital or intellectual-property pirate fit into that spectrum?
- malkia 10y ago
  Ah, good catch!
- jordigh 10y ago
  In (Québec?) French, "pirate informatique" is the term used for malicious security breaker. I rather like that. I'm not sure what phrase is used for people who share copyrighted materials online, but probably informally "pirate" is also used.
taejo 10y ago
> modern day (most of them Somalian) pirates. I think your information is out of date. In 2015, 60% of piracy incidents were in South-East Asia. http://www.agcs.allianz.com/insights/white-papers-and-case-studies/safety-and-shipping-review-2016/ http://www.agcs.allianz.com/insights/white-papers-and-case-s...

skybrian 10y ago

The positive usage of "hacker" has deep roots. The author of this article wrote a classic book that documents the early scene. https://www.amazon.com/Hackers-Computer-Revolution-Steven-Levy/dp/1449388396 https://www.amazon.com/Hackers-Computer-Revolution-Steven-Le...

anonemouse145 10y ago

Hacker always was positive. It gained popularity to mean the people who played around with hardware to make home computers before the PC became a commercial product, or who found novel ways to play around with the phone system- like you could record and play back touch tone sounds on a tape recorder to make calls. The negative connotation came from the bust of Kevin Mitnick and the American public's shameful lack of knowledge about computers, combined with 1984 style propaganda to scare the public. Hacker or hacking always meant someone who approaches problems in novel ways. Cracker, like a safe cracker, is someone who breaks in for malicious reasons. The kids on 4chan who follow a guide to DDOS a website are script kiddies, by the way. That's what these terms always meant, and we're starting to move back after an era of propaganda.

baldfat 10y ago

Hacker (computer) originally was a positive term. The stupid mainstream in the mid to late 80s corrupted a great word. I had a few friends get arrested for accidentally calling a Pentagon and then try and figure out if they could see what the server was for. I don't think they were called Hackers but that was 1985 and this story happened in 1983 http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/11/tech/computer-hacker-essay-414s/ http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/11/tech/computer-hacker-essay-414... The Jargon File, a glossary for computer programmers that was launched in 1975, lists eight definitions for “hacker.” The first reads, “A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary.” The following six are equally approving. The eighth, and last, is “[deprecated] A malicious meddler who tries to discover sensitive information by poking around. Hence password hacker, network hacker. The correct term for this sense is cracker.” http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/a-short-history-of-hack http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/a-short-history-of-ha...

watwut 10y ago

Except on hacker news, I associated hacker with someone who produce low quality code - hack is a dirty trick that does job at hand but breaks architecture and will likely cause problems in the future. Back when I was younger, people who references to themselves as hacker (or were referenced as such by others) were usually not trustworthy.

defgeneric 10y ago

In the golfing classes it's still a negative term, e.g. "the Sunday hackers are out tearing up the course today."