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>Try this: close your eyes and tie your shoelaces. No problem at all, right? Now, how well do you think you could tie your shoes if your arm was asleep? Or even

>Try this: close your eyes and tie your shoelaces. No problem at all, right? Now, how well do you think you could tie your shoes if your arm was asleep? Or even if your fingers were numb? When working with our hands, touch does the driving, and vision helps out from the back seat. I think this is an awful analogy. I can type just as fast on my touchscreen no problem without looking. The problem with having physical keyboards on a phone is space. You're taking up a solid 1/4th of the weight and bulk of a phone with something that is entirely dedicated to the single purpose of entering text. On top of that keyboards are a vector for dust and moisture to enter, making the phone less durable. There's a reason iPhone is the single greatest selling electronic device in history, and RIM is circling the drain. People want slim, sexy, lightweight touch phones. Not bricks with keyboards.

vanderZwan 10y ago
> People want slim, sexy, lightweight touch phones. Not bricks with keyboards. Good bit of weaselwording there... you already assume that the only option for keyboards implies having a brick. Not to mention asserting your own authority about what "people" want. It's pretty damn naive to think that these design decisions where made with desires and needs of the consumer in mind, instead of with cost cutting for the producer. But go ahead, brag about how you're good at using poorly designed technology and stop-gap solutions, since this obviously this discussion is totally about you after all /s
Jaruzel 10y ago
> People want slim, sexy, lightweight touch phones. Not bricks with keyboards. I'm 'People' and I don't want that.
- DanHulton 10y ago
  You're "person". Sure, I'm being pedantic, but when you take a look at the overall market, the "people" being referenced, they do indeed want that.
  - throwaway7645 10y ago
    Unfortunately I think you're right and not sure why you're downvoted.
    - Jaruzel 10y ago
      Just upvoted him, he's allowed his opinion, even though it conflicts with mine. I may be a 'person' and not 'people', but imagine if we all had to drive the same car, or live in the same type of houses, just because the majority preferred it that way... If there is enough of us who want something different that making or providing that thing is viable, then we should be allowed to have it, and have no-one criticise us for that choice. It is after all supposed to be a free world.
      - throwaway7645 10y ago
        Agreed. I use incredibly obscure programming languages, devices, hobby spoken languages, games...in almost everything I do outside the norm, not because I'm trying to be different, but that's what I like. The parent comment is just saying the market (most people) have spoken and we're not it. Just like I doubt you're an avid Java fan on HN (you might be, but I doubt it). The market has spoken on that and Taylor Swift...etc.
- harryf 10y ago
  Meanwhile I'm an outlier that thinks typing on a Nokia 1100 was more innovative than recreating a typewriter design that goes back to the 1870's
la_oveja 10y ago
This is a niche phone, if you weren't already aware.
gcb0 10y ago
> I can type just as fast on my touchscreen no problem without looking. either that is an exacerbate lie or you type extremely slow and full of typos when looking. it's humanly impossible to use a glass screen without looking. but by all means, if you did develop that skill, please teach the world. you migth even become famous. (and all BB phones with keyboard of late have the same IPS rating as the iphone. not that anyone care about that)
- dmix 10y ago
  The author of this Blackberry review even says that the physical keyboard has not increased his typing speed ability vs a touch screen, it just feels nicer. It's quite well known that a touch screen is just as comparable from a speed perspective. Nor do I see how memorizing the location of keys would be very difficult.
  - bonestamp2 10y ago
    Ya, I like typing on the iPhone keyboard but the BlackBerry keyboard is very powerful in that it also acts like a ton of shortcut keys that you can use from any application. I think that's actually the more compelling use for the physical keyboard. People who like keyboard shortcuts on their computer might really love keyboard shortcuts on their Android.
  - scrumper 10y ago
    This isn't really true. Your sense of proprioception is engaged with physical buttons yet bypassed entirely with touchscreens. You can walk down the street typing without looking at the screen if you have a real physical keyboard. Memorizing... No, you just can't. You can't reliably hit the same key with your thumb or finger (blindfolded) when it's a touchscreen, but you can easily do so with a real keyboard. Physical cues are really important: you can orient with the little bumps on the home row, or find your way from the edge. This is not going to be a popular statement, but there's a reason why texting while driving is a problem now everyone has a touchscreen keyboard than back when we all had T9 and real buttons.
    - 10y ago
na85 10y ago
>There's a reason iPhone is the single greatest selling electronic device in history, That reason is called marketing.
mikestew 10y ago
There's a reason iPhone is the single greatest selling electronic device in history That reason might be that, despite its lack of a physical keyboard, the iPhone has enough other outstanding features that users are willing to put up with a shitacular on-screen keyboard with autocorrect that seems to get worse with the passage of time. Or at least that's my reason for continuing to own one.
- hn_throwaway_99 10y ago
  Does anyone use a Swype style keyboard? I'm much faster with a swype keyboard than with any other type of keyboard, and this is of course impossible without a flat piece is glass.
  - mikestew 10y ago
    I'm using it right now. And boy does it suck ass. I mean, the keyboard itself is great. But it takes a long time too load, which I can live with. The ass-sucking part comes from that goddamn "change keyboard" menu. How does it work? Hold it down? Just tap it? I don't get consistent behavior doing either one. That's assuming it even wants to display in the first place. Every time I have to invoke the fucking thing I give serious thought to just uninstalling it.
    - hn_throwaway_99 10y ago
      It's my default keyboard on Android and I experience none of those issues.
      - mikestew 10y ago
        Sorry, should have specified iOS. Don't know that it makes a difference, but our two data points say "maybe".
    - cmarinas 10y ago
      For a more consistent behaviour, I deleted the other default iOS keyboards (in Settings) and just left the swype-style one (Google's now, used Swiftkey before). Occasionally I get an iOS keyboard (without any language) but very rarely, I guess some timeout in opening the swype-style keyboard.

vanderZwan 10y ago

> People want slim, sexy, lightweight touch phones. Not bricks with keyboards. Good bit of weaselwording there... you already assume that the only option for keyboards implies having a brick. Not to mention asserting your own authority about what "people" want. It's pretty damn naive to think that these design decisions where made with desires and needs of the consumer in mind, instead of with cost cutting for the producer. But go ahead, brag about how you're good at using poorly designed technology and stop-gap solutions, since this obviously this discussion is totally about you after all /s

Jaruzel 10y ago

> People want slim, sexy, lightweight touch phones. Not bricks with keyboards. I'm 'People' and I don't want that.

DanHulton 10y ago
You're "person". Sure, I'm being pedantic, but when you take a look at the overall market, the "people" being referenced, they do indeed want that.
- throwaway7645 10y ago
  Unfortunately I think you're right and not sure why you're downvoted.
  - Jaruzel 10y ago
    Just upvoted him, he's allowed his opinion, even though it conflicts with mine. I may be a 'person' and not 'people', but imagine if we all had to drive the same car, or live in the same type of houses, just because the majority preferred it that way... If there is enough of us who want something different that making or providing that thing is viable, then we should be allowed to have it, and have no-one criticise us for that choice. It is after all supposed to be a free world.
    - throwaway7645 10y ago
      Agreed. I use incredibly obscure programming languages, devices, hobby spoken languages, games...in almost everything I do outside the norm, not because I'm trying to be different, but that's what I like. The parent comment is just saying the market (most people) have spoken and we're not it. Just like I doubt you're an avid Java fan on HN (you might be, but I doubt it). The market has spoken on that and Taylor Swift...etc.
harryf 10y ago
Meanwhile I'm an outlier that thinks typing on a Nokia 1100 was more innovative than recreating a typewriter design that goes back to the 1870's

la_oveja 10y ago

This is a niche phone, if you weren't already aware.

gcb0 10y ago

> I can type just as fast on my touchscreen no problem without looking. either that is an exacerbate lie or you type extremely slow and full of typos when looking. it's humanly impossible to use a glass screen without looking. but by all means, if you did develop that skill, please teach the world. you migth even become famous. (and all BB phones with keyboard of late have the same IPS rating as the iphone. not that anyone care about that)

dmix 10y ago
The author of this Blackberry review even says that the physical keyboard has not increased his typing speed ability vs a touch screen, it just feels nicer. It's quite well known that a touch screen is just as comparable from a speed perspective. Nor do I see how memorizing the location of keys would be very difficult.
- bonestamp2 10y ago
  Ya, I like typing on the iPhone keyboard but the BlackBerry keyboard is very powerful in that it also acts like a ton of shortcut keys that you can use from any application. I think that's actually the more compelling use for the physical keyboard. People who like keyboard shortcuts on their computer might really love keyboard shortcuts on their Android.
- scrumper 10y ago
  This isn't really true. Your sense of proprioception is engaged with physical buttons yet bypassed entirely with touchscreens. You can walk down the street typing without looking at the screen if you have a real physical keyboard. Memorizing... No, you just can't. You can't reliably hit the same key with your thumb or finger (blindfolded) when it's a touchscreen, but you can easily do so with a real keyboard. Physical cues are really important: you can orient with the little bumps on the home row, or find your way from the edge. This is not going to be a popular statement, but there's a reason why texting while driving is a problem now everyone has a touchscreen keyboard than back when we all had T9 and real buttons.
  - 10y ago

na85 10y ago

>There's a reason iPhone is the single greatest selling electronic device in history, That reason is called marketing.

mikestew 10y ago

There's a reason iPhone is the single greatest selling electronic device in history That reason might be that, despite its lack of a physical keyboard, the iPhone has enough other outstanding features that users are willing to put up with a shitacular on-screen keyboard with autocorrect that seems to get worse with the passage of time. Or at least that's my reason for continuing to own one.

hn_throwaway_99 10y ago
Does anyone use a Swype style keyboard? I'm much faster with a swype keyboard than with any other type of keyboard, and this is of course impossible without a flat piece is glass.
- mikestew 10y ago
  I'm using it right now. And boy does it suck ass. I mean, the keyboard itself is great. But it takes a long time too load, which I can live with. The ass-sucking part comes from that goddamn "change keyboard" menu. How does it work? Hold it down? Just tap it? I don't get consistent behavior doing either one. That's assuming it even wants to display in the first place. Every time I have to invoke the fucking thing I give serious thought to just uninstalling it.
  - hn_throwaway_99 10y ago
    It's my default keyboard on Android and I experience none of those issues.
    - mikestew 10y ago
      Sorry, should have specified iOS. Don't know that it makes a difference, but our two data points say "maybe".
  - cmarinas 10y ago
    For a more consistent behaviour, I deleted the other default iOS keyboards (in Settings) and just left the swype-style one (Google's now, used Swiftkey before). Occasionally I get an iOS keyboard (without any language) but very rarely, I guess some timeout in opening the swype-style keyboard.