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> then there's the Lib Dems who had their shot at power, and immediately went back on their promises and raised student loans through the roof. Does anybody (w

> then there's the Lib Dems who had their shot at power, and immediately went back on their promises and raised student loans through the roof. Does anybody (who can critically think) actually care about this? All political parties have made u-turns (for example, the current government changed their mind pretty damn quickly about the NI increase) and, at the end of the day, the Conservatives won a majority so it's their call. I swear the whole "Lib Dem" == "Tuition fee liers" is just a meme created by journalists to sell papers and distract people from real issues. Oh God, writing that out made me realise I sound like a bit of a conspiracy theorist...

noir_lord 9y ago
Also the tuition thing was if they won outright not formed a coalition, so they literally didn't go back on their word. They also blunted a lot of what the conservatives wanted to do and fell on their own sword doing it. Country before Party and I'm not traditionally a Liberal Democrat fan, frankly they deserve some admiration. People forget too easily what the world was like back then, a massive financial crash and the banks looking very shaky.
- corney91 9y ago
  > Also the tuition thing was if they won outright not formed a coalition, so they literally didn't go back on their word. Hate to disagree here, but it wasn't the manifesto plan of free tuition (which is what they'd do in power) that was the problem, they also signed a pledge to vote against any increase in fees which half of them didn't follow through with (being part of government): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_for_Students_pledge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_for_Students_pledge Agree with the rest of your comment though.
mattmanser 9y ago
How else do you explain the massive collapse in support last election? They lost so much. 86% of their seats (57 to 8), 66% of their popular vote (23% to 15.2%).
- corney91 9y ago
  Because people thought they were "Tory enablers" and the tuition fee thing was the perfect example of that. But comparing the coalition with the current Conservative government, I think it's clear they were actually beneficial to the country. Will be interesting to see how that attitude changes with time...
- ZeroGravitas 9y ago
  Both of these, and the strange discrepancy between them, can in some part be explained by the archaic first-past-the-post election system. Apparently many of their loses to the conservative party were caused by a last minute rush of voters to labour. In a three-way contest that had the perverse effect of sending things in the opposite political direction.
  - mattmanser 9y ago
    As far as I can tell it's their lowest vote share for decades and all the last few elections have been close. What you're saying just doesn't ring true. People genuinely felt betrayed by the uni fees.
phpnode 9y ago
The left has an unfortunate willingness to expend more energy on fighting each other than the people that they truly oppose.
- corney91 9y ago
  That might be changing (although I'm still not getting my hopes up about this year's GE...): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39693277 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39693277 https://www.tactical2017.com/ https://www.tactical2017.com/
lmm 9y ago
> Does anybody (who can critically think) actually care about this? All political parties have made u-turns (for example, the current government changed their mind pretty damn quickly about the NI increase) and, at the end of the day, the Conservatives won a majority so it's their call. I care about it (and I barely read any newspapers, FWIW). Lib Dems MPs went above and beyond their manifesto and made direct, personal pledges not to vote to raise tuition fees. The coalition agreement did not require them to vote to raise tuition fees. Nevertheless, many did. This was an egregious deceit even by the standards of politicians. It absolutely deserved a massive electoral punishment, which thankfully seems to have been delivered. (FWIW the NI U-turn was precisely because increasing it would have violated a manifesto promise, so not really comparable)
- corney91 9y ago
  >The coalition agreement did not require them to vote to raise tuition fees. Except the ones in government: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet_collective_responsibility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet_collective_responsibil... Apparently being part of the cabinet means you're no longer representing your constituency but the government instead...

noir_lord 9y ago

Also the tuition thing was if they won outright not formed a coalition, so they literally didn't go back on their word. They also blunted a lot of what the conservatives wanted to do and fell on their own sword doing it. Country before Party and I'm not traditionally a Liberal Democrat fan, frankly they deserve some admiration. People forget too easily what the world was like back then, a massive financial crash and the banks looking very shaky.

corney91 9y ago
> Also the tuition thing was if they won outright not formed a coalition, so they literally didn't go back on their word. Hate to disagree here, but it wasn't the manifesto plan of free tuition (which is what they'd do in power) that was the problem, they also signed a pledge to vote against any increase in fees which half of them didn't follow through with (being part of government): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_for_Students_pledge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_for_Students_pledge Agree with the rest of your comment though.

mattmanser 9y ago

How else do you explain the massive collapse in support last election? They lost so much. 86% of their seats (57 to 8), 66% of their popular vote (23% to 15.2%).

corney91 9y ago
Because people thought they were "Tory enablers" and the tuition fee thing was the perfect example of that. But comparing the coalition with the current Conservative government, I think it's clear they were actually beneficial to the country. Will be interesting to see how that attitude changes with time...
ZeroGravitas 9y ago
Both of these, and the strange discrepancy between them, can in some part be explained by the archaic first-past-the-post election system. Apparently many of their loses to the conservative party were caused by a last minute rush of voters to labour. In a three-way contest that had the perverse effect of sending things in the opposite political direction.
- mattmanser 9y ago
  As far as I can tell it's their lowest vote share for decades and all the last few elections have been close. What you're saying just doesn't ring true. People genuinely felt betrayed by the uni fees.

phpnode 9y ago

The left has an unfortunate willingness to expend more energy on fighting each other than the people that they truly oppose.

corney91 9y ago
That might be changing (although I'm still not getting my hopes up about this year's GE...): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39693277 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39693277 https://www.tactical2017.com/ https://www.tactical2017.com/

lmm 9y ago

> Does anybody (who can critically think) actually care about this? All political parties have made u-turns (for example, the current government changed their mind pretty damn quickly about the NI increase) and, at the end of the day, the Conservatives won a majority so it's their call. I care about it (and I barely read any newspapers, FWIW). Lib Dems MPs went above and beyond their manifesto and made direct, personal pledges not to vote to raise tuition fees. The coalition agreement did not require them to vote to raise tuition fees. Nevertheless, many did. This was an egregious deceit even by the standards of politicians. It absolutely deserved a massive electoral punishment, which thankfully seems to have been delivered. (FWIW the NI U-turn was precisely because increasing it would have violated a manifesto promise, so not really comparable)

corney91 9y ago
>The coalition agreement did not require them to vote to raise tuition fees. Except the ones in government: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet_collective_responsibility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet_collective_responsibil... Apparently being part of the cabinet means you're no longer representing your constituency but the government instead...