4 ms·

(copied from answer to another similar question.) Companies are looking for what you as a candidate can do for them. Self-study or taking a class signals some

(copied from answer to another similar question.) Companies are looking for what you as a candidate can do for them. Self-study or taking a class signals some level of "I tried to learn this thing." So that's a start. Even better is "I built X", where X is obviously based on skill you learned. In which case you can omit the class because you have proof of learning, not just trying to learn. Even better is "I provided business value V to my employer by building X." Because now you're showing how this skill is useful to someone else. So using skill at work is another thing to try. Ideal is you write the above, but emphasize V (or choose between multiple things you can list) in a way that suggests you can help the needs of the particular company you're applying to. So there's having the skill (which is good), but there's also how you present it to show it will provide value (also important). More on the contrast between having engineering skills and marketing yourself here: https://codewithoutrules.com/2017/01/19/specialist-vs-generalist/ https://codewithoutrules.com/2017/01/19/specialist-vs-genera...

usgroup 9y ago
I think with DS more often than not you're being hired into an existing operation rather than being the first hire. Your hiring manager will likely be a DS guy with a higher degree who'll hardly believe that his PhD was a waste of time. Like finds like, people like me, and all that ...
thro1111111 9y ago
While this sounds rational, I don't think that's how it works in most cases. Those who do the hiring usually prefer covering themselves by hiring someone with a degree rather than having to explain how they hired you because you made millions to someone else in the past. Also while we understand the hacker culture, many only understand "degree > job", they can't comprehend why you don't have a degree if you are so good.
- itamarst 9y ago
  Depends a lot on the company. I know many successful programmers without a CS degree, for example.
  - klibertp 9y ago
    That's exactly the problem, though: they're, I assume, programmers, not "data scientists". The notion that you can learn to program on your own and have the self-education result in a comparable (or better) effects than attending classes is widely accepted. I don't see the same attitude towards data scientists, which is what I think the OP is asking about.
- computerex 9y ago
  > While this sounds rational, I don't think that's how it works in most cases. Those who do the hiring usually prefer covering themselves by hiring someone with a degree rather than having to explain how they hired you because you made millions to someone else in the past. Definitely not my experience. I can count on one hand the number of employers who didn't want to proceed because of a lack of degree.
  - sillysaurus3 9y ago
    For data science specifically? Remember, this question isn't about general CS.
    - computerex 9y ago
      The original comment sounded like general advice not specific to data science. I was thinking about it in the context of general CS/programming. But even in data science specifically, in my experience the focus in hiring is towards actual skills and less towards credentials/qualifications. I recently (few weeks ago) interviewed with a data science company for a data science role as someone with a software engineering background. It was a challenging interview but the subject of my degree never even came up and I got the job.
      - chronic940 9y ago
        Data science is absolutely based on degree level. Software engineering, maybe 50% of people care about your degree.
    - itamarst 9y ago
      My impression is there is huge demand for data scientists (e.g. friend who is trying to hire someone and can't find anyone). Open Data Science Conference is running right now in Boston, 3600 attendees... it seems likely that if you can demonstrate skill, someone somewhere will hire you.
    - jey 9y ago
      I'm a data scientist at a research institution and I have no college degree. I'm self-taught and was originally hired as a software engineer on the basis of my projects and work experience. > Remember, this question isn't about general CS. What's your perception of data science vs CS, especially with respect to hiring?
rdudek 9y ago
This is great, however, the biggest roadblock might be the automated HR application scanning. As a victim of this, I'm back in school to finish my degree that I started 17 years ago.
- klibertp 9y ago
  How is it going? How do you do it? I'm in a similar position right now, but every time I think about being subject to the bureaucracy again I shudder and choose to write interesting blog posts instead... It's not about the costs or the time; I feel like my dignity as a professional (and possibly even as a human being) would be threatened. It could be because of the way the higher education is set up in my country, though.
  - rdudek 9y ago
    It's going well. It's tough working full time, kids, and accelerated full time courses. I have almost no free time what-so-ever. Currently taking a B.S. Computer Science program at Regis University.
  - thatcat 9y ago
    >my dignity as would be threatened.. Bc thr way higher ed is set up in my country. Would you mind elaborating on this?
    - klibertp 9y ago
      In short, public universities and colleges have more than 50 years of history operating in an almost communist, authoritarian state. Private institutions are still widely considered to be worse than public, and the latter still operate on a presumption that students should be happy for just being accepted (and ripped off - sometimes unlawfully, as the public higher education is supposed to be free). In reality, when we chose to go all democratic in '89, the amount of money sent to the institutions diminished, while any change in their mode of operation was resisted, for 25 years and counting, so things only get worse since then. It's hard to imagine without experiencing it firsthand. How could it be that big of a deal? But it is: you're treated not as a customer, not as a partner, but as a lowly supplicant in all your interactions with the institutions. You're expected to just "put up with it for a while" (like 3 to 5 years...) and drink some vodka if you get frustrated a bit too much.

usgroup 9y ago

I think with DS more often than not you're being hired into an existing operation rather than being the first hire. Your hiring manager will likely be a DS guy with a higher degree who'll hardly believe that his PhD was a waste of time. Like finds like, people like me, and all that ...

thro1111111 9y ago

While this sounds rational, I don't think that's how it works in most cases. Those who do the hiring usually prefer covering themselves by hiring someone with a degree rather than having to explain how they hired you because you made millions to someone else in the past. Also while we understand the hacker culture, many only understand "degree > job", they can't comprehend why you don't have a degree if you are so good.

itamarst 9y ago
Depends a lot on the company. I know many successful programmers without a CS degree, for example.
- klibertp 9y ago
  That's exactly the problem, though: they're, I assume, programmers, not "data scientists". The notion that you can learn to program on your own and have the self-education result in a comparable (or better) effects than attending classes is widely accepted. I don't see the same attitude towards data scientists, which is what I think the OP is asking about.
computerex 9y ago
> While this sounds rational, I don't think that's how it works in most cases. Those who do the hiring usually prefer covering themselves by hiring someone with a degree rather than having to explain how they hired you because you made millions to someone else in the past. Definitely not my experience. I can count on one hand the number of employers who didn't want to proceed because of a lack of degree.
- sillysaurus3 9y ago
  For data science specifically? Remember, this question isn't about general CS.
  - computerex 9y ago
    The original comment sounded like general advice not specific to data science. I was thinking about it in the context of general CS/programming. But even in data science specifically, in my experience the focus in hiring is towards actual skills and less towards credentials/qualifications. I recently (few weeks ago) interviewed with a data science company for a data science role as someone with a software engineering background. It was a challenging interview but the subject of my degree never even came up and I got the job.
    - chronic940 9y ago
      Data science is absolutely based on degree level. Software engineering, maybe 50% of people care about your degree.
  - itamarst 9y ago
    My impression is there is huge demand for data scientists (e.g. friend who is trying to hire someone and can't find anyone). Open Data Science Conference is running right now in Boston, 3600 attendees... it seems likely that if you can demonstrate skill, someone somewhere will hire you.
  - jey 9y ago
    I'm a data scientist at a research institution and I have no college degree. I'm self-taught and was originally hired as a software engineer on the basis of my projects and work experience. > Remember, this question isn't about general CS. What's your perception of data science vs CS, especially with respect to hiring?

rdudek 9y ago

This is great, however, the biggest roadblock might be the automated HR application scanning. As a victim of this, I'm back in school to finish my degree that I started 17 years ago.

klibertp 9y ago
How is it going? How do you do it? I'm in a similar position right now, but every time I think about being subject to the bureaucracy again I shudder and choose to write interesting blog posts instead... It's not about the costs or the time; I feel like my dignity as a professional (and possibly even as a human being) would be threatened. It could be because of the way the higher education is set up in my country, though.
- rdudek 9y ago
  It's going well. It's tough working full time, kids, and accelerated full time courses. I have almost no free time what-so-ever. Currently taking a B.S. Computer Science program at Regis University.
- thatcat 9y ago
  >my dignity as would be threatened.. Bc thr way higher ed is set up in my country. Would you mind elaborating on this?
  - klibertp 9y ago
    In short, public universities and colleges have more than 50 years of history operating in an almost communist, authoritarian state. Private institutions are still widely considered to be worse than public, and the latter still operate on a presumption that students should be happy for just being accepted (and ripped off - sometimes unlawfully, as the public higher education is supposed to be free). In reality, when we chose to go all democratic in '89, the amount of money sent to the institutions diminished, while any change in their mode of operation was resisted, for 25 years and counting, so things only get worse since then. It's hard to imagine without experiencing it firsthand. How could it be that big of a deal? But it is: you're treated not as a customer, not as a partner, but as a lowly supplicant in all your interactions with the institutions. You're expected to just "put up with it for a while" (like 3 to 5 years...) and drink some vodka if you get frustrated a bit too much.