7 ms·

"Built on NoSQL embedded database" Honest question, why is this a benefit?

by amval 9y ago

bicubic 9y ago
Yeah, that seems like a weird thing to list as a 'feature'. Tell us why it's a feature that stands out over the competition, put that explanation on the list instead.
jpalomaki 9y ago
Easier to setup if there's no external dependencies to install and maintain?
- cmrx64 9y ago
  This is equally true of SQLite, so why call out NoSQL specifically? And which flavor NoSQL is it anyway :)
  - jedimastert 9y ago
    Genuine question, why does SQLite get so much hate? Is it because it's SQL, or it's embedded, or what? I've used it for a lot of projects where I have to move the server around a lot and it's super convenient
    - vlunkr 9y ago
      I don't know that it gets a lot of hate, it's just generally not considered to be an adequate production server database.
      - lillesvin 9y ago
        Huh? Not sure what you mean but it's not intended as a "server database". It is however used a lot in production as an embedded DB in applications. E.g. I've seen SQLite in lots of Android apps.
        vlunkr 9y ago
        Right, that's what I mean.
        aptwebapps 9y ago
        Both Chrome and Firefox use it for storing history.
        int_19h 9y ago
        It's actually perfectly fine for many small server roles, as well.
    - lvillani 9y ago
      SQLite is great! It's just that those of us using it with pleasure don't complain or feel the need to be vocal about how good it is :)
    - yellowapple 9y ago
      SQLite gets a lot of love when it's used for the right job. It's not a replacement for a full-blown RDBMS. If you need a database for a multi-user application, you'll probably be better served by something like PostgreSQL. For single-user applications, however, it's quite fantastic.
  - jasode 9y ago
    I'm not the author but I'll attempt to clear up the confusion based on what I've read. Total.js's specific usage of "embedded" in this case means it includes 3000 lines[1] of pure Javascript that embeds the entire db engine source code into the project. As for SQLite... as far as I can tell with Googling, there is no port of SQLite's C code to pure Javascript code that's maintained with popular support. (I found an old 2014 project[2][3] but it doesn't appear to be up-to-date.) Yes, there is a Javascript API[4] to SQLite but that's different from the SQLite engine itself being converted to 100% Javascript. That's the nuance of "embedded" in Total.js' context. Yes, SQLite is an embedded db but nosql.js is even "more embedded" than that. That said, whether Total.js embedded js db engine is as high performance and error-free compared to SQLite is unknown. [1] https://github.com/totaljs/framework/blob/master/nosql.js https://github.com/totaljs/framework/blob/master/nosql.js [2] 100% Javascript translated from SQLite C source --> https://github.com/lovasoa/sql.js https://github.com/lovasoa/sql.js [3] http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15415076/sql-js-in-javascript http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15415076/sql-js-in-javasc... [4] some Javascript driving a SQLite C Language compiled binary --> https://www.npmjs.com/package/sqlite3 https://www.npmjs.com/package/sqlite3
    - cmrx64 9y ago
      Ok, that's a lot more interesting than just "links to leveldb"!
- rakoo 9y ago
  All the big names in NoSQL have a server you need to install and maintain. In the SQL world as well, actually.
  - mhotchen 9y ago
    SQLite, LMDB and RocksDB are all popular and embedded. They're not really web-centric though so don't get as much exposure on HN and its ilk. Edit: Sorry if I sound like "that guy," just offering up some names in case people aren't familiar with them.
- macspoofing 9y ago
  That's true of any embedded database.
dheera 9y ago
Probably to convince manager types to adopt it? NoSQL is a hot marketing word among people who don't actually write code. Just go to any conference about "big data" and listen ;) It's like the word "XML" 10 years ago. Just say some BS about how you're adopting a new XML-based infrastructure for motivating a novel, globally-connected society with Web 2.0 standards compliance, and the managers will let you do what you really want to do.
- balls187 9y ago
  As a manager type, I care not about that. However, I do care about the per-user cost of a team messenger app.
- brown9-2 9y ago
  This is a weird idea of what managers care about.
brown9-2 9y ago
I think this is usually a sign that a company doesn't know how to market its product.

"Built on NoSQL embedded database" Honest question, why is this a benefit?

by amval 9y ago

"Built on NoSQL embedded database" Honest question, why is this a benefit?

Yeah, that seems like a weird thing to list as a 'feature'. Tell us why it's a feature that stands out over the competition, put that explanation on the list instead.

jpalomaki 9y ago

Easier to setup if there's no external dependencies to install and maintain?

cmrx64 9y ago
This is equally true of SQLite, so why call out NoSQL specifically? And which flavor NoSQL is it anyway :)
- jedimastert 9y ago
  Genuine question, why does SQLite get so much hate? Is it because it's SQL, or it's embedded, or what? I've used it for a lot of projects where I have to move the server around a lot and it's super convenient
  - vlunkr 9y ago
    I don't know that it gets a lot of hate, it's just generally not considered to be an adequate production server database.
    - lillesvin 9y ago
      Huh? Not sure what you mean but it's not intended as a "server database". It is however used a lot in production as an embedded DB in applications. E.g. I've seen SQLite in lots of Android apps.
      - vlunkr 9y ago
        Right, that's what I mean.
      - aptwebapps 9y ago
        Both Chrome and Firefox use it for storing history.
      - int_19h 9y ago
        It's actually perfectly fine for many small server roles, as well.
  - lvillani 9y ago
    SQLite is great! It's just that those of us using it with pleasure don't complain or feel the need to be vocal about how good it is :)
  - yellowapple 9y ago
    SQLite gets a lot of love when it's used for the right job. It's not a replacement for a full-blown RDBMS. If you need a database for a multi-user application, you'll probably be better served by something like PostgreSQL. For single-user applications, however, it's quite fantastic.
- jasode 9y ago
  I'm not the author but I'll attempt to clear up the confusion based on what I've read. Total.js's specific usage of "embedded" in this case means it includes 3000 lines[1] of pure Javascript that embeds the entire db engine source code into the project. As for SQLite... as far as I can tell with Googling, there is no port of SQLite's C code to pure Javascript code that's maintained with popular support. (I found an old 2014 project[2][3] but it doesn't appear to be up-to-date.) Yes, there is a Javascript API[4] to SQLite but that's different from the SQLite engine itself being converted to 100% Javascript. That's the nuance of "embedded" in Total.js' context. Yes, SQLite is an embedded db but nosql.js is even "more embedded" than that. That said, whether Total.js embedded js db engine is as high performance and error-free compared to SQLite is unknown. [1] https://github.com/totaljs/framework/blob/master/nosql.js https://github.com/totaljs/framework/blob/master/nosql.js [2] 100% Javascript translated from SQLite C source --> https://github.com/lovasoa/sql.js https://github.com/lovasoa/sql.js [3] http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15415076/sql-js-in-javascript http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15415076/sql-js-in-javasc... [4] some Javascript driving a SQLite C Language compiled binary --> https://www.npmjs.com/package/sqlite3 https://www.npmjs.com/package/sqlite3
  - cmrx64 9y ago
    Ok, that's a lot more interesting than just "links to leveldb"!
rakoo 9y ago
All the big names in NoSQL have a server you need to install and maintain. In the SQL world as well, actually.
- mhotchen 9y ago
  SQLite, LMDB and RocksDB are all popular and embedded. They're not really web-centric though so don't get as much exposure on HN and its ilk. Edit: Sorry if I sound like "that guy," just offering up some names in case people aren't familiar with them.
macspoofing 9y ago
That's true of any embedded database.

dheera 9y ago

Probably to convince manager types to adopt it? NoSQL is a hot marketing word among people who don't actually write code. Just go to any conference about "big data" and listen ;) It's like the word "XML" 10 years ago. Just say some BS about how you're adopting a new XML-based infrastructure for motivating a novel, globally-connected society with Web 2.0 standards compliance, and the managers will let you do what you really want to do.

balls187 9y ago
As a manager type, I care not about that. However, I do care about the per-user cost of a team messenger app.
brown9-2 9y ago
This is a weird idea of what managers care about.

brown9-2 9y ago

I think this is usually a sign that a company doesn't know how to market its product.