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It depends on how you define "data science". If you are like AWS and say that using logistic regression is machine learning, then yes, you can teach yourself d

It depends on how you define "data science". If you are like AWS and say that using logistic regression is machine learning, then yes, you can teach yourself data science. Learn SQL, read a couple of books on logistic regression, use some open data for building a couple of models. There are many companies where you can have a decent job and an easy living with SQL and logistic regression on your tool belt. If you say that data science starts with automating stock trading or building the intelligence of self driving cars, than no, you can not teach yourself data science. You will need at least one degree. Or more.

StavrosK 9y ago
> no, you can not teach yourself data science. You will need at least one degree. Or more. Why not? What is it that prevents anyone from learning anything without getting a degree? I disagree with your statement, I think it might be harder, but I don't think anyone "cannot teach themselves X".
- haggy 9y ago
  I agree with parts of both statements. On one hand, if you're looking to seriously get into data science then it's going to be hard to even get interviews with companies that are looking for real data scientists without those pieces of paper (diplomas). On the other hand, I agree that with enough dedication and effort you can teach yourself anything (after all, university is largely just you teaching yourself with the help of a schedule set by an institution).
  - thewarrior 9y ago
    I don't want to design the next self driving car. Just design models that deliver business value.
  - gorbachev 9y ago
    My company is hiring data scientists all the time. Nobody looks at the education section of the resume of the candidates we get. We look at what the person has actually done, and then we interview to make sure the resume wasn't filled with lies about that experience.
    - StavrosK 9y ago
      That has been my experience as well. Not a single person has ever asked me "what's your degree", but everyone looks at my projects and past work.
- treyfitty 9y ago
  Business fundamentals rely on norms, whether we like it or not. As a society, we rely on credentialing for complex matters. Sure, while anyone can absolutely learn to build a self driving car without a degree, here are two very likely paths as a result: 1. Company hires this data scientist, but regulators are skeptical of the efficacy of his/her implementation. 2. Companies adopt this notion that everyone can be a data scientist, build self driving cars, and the cars turn out to be a very error prone, imposing harm. Businesses have to set a bar somewhere to ensure their expected return on data scientist is positive. Just like pharma execs & investors vet their scientists, highly complex data science positions will require convincing the players (investors, regulators...etc.) that your guy is legit. A pharma company would never endorse Walter White as their scientist responsible for delivering drugs.
- soVeryTired 9y ago
  It's quite possible that you can teach yourself a lot of the relevant background. If you read David Barber's book cover to cover and do all the problems, that's a machine learning masters' course covered. But the problem is that you're competing against job applicants who already have a degree in machine learning. So it will often be the case that you're lucky to make it past an initial HR screen. If they want to interview ten people, life is easier for them to pick ten who already have the right piece of paper.
  - StavrosK 9y ago
    Hah, I couldn't read that book when I was taking his class, it's not likely I'll start now. However, to your point, "you can't teach yourself" and "you can't get a job just by reading a book" aren't the same thing. I'm not so sure you can't get a job by teaching yourself machine learning and making your own self-driving toy car or some other fun project, though.
    - soVeryTired 9y ago
      If someone can't understand barber, I don't think they've taught themselves machine learning. I think they've taught themselves to plug data into an off-the-shelf model.
- NumberCruncher 9y ago
  I may be biased because I am from a country where the first degree was for free and we did not have to pay tuition fee. At that time "I can teach myself X" meant "I can teach myself X so why not have a paper about it?". A lot of us are on the job market and you compete with us.
- stupidhn 9y ago
  >What is it that prevents anyone from learning anything without getting a degree? The people with advanced degrees want to protect the value of their investment. As others have noted, the reality is you can generate a ton of value to business by "learned at home data science". Will you be doing cutting edge ML research? Of course not. But 99.9% of everyday problems can be solved with simple tools.
CCing 9y ago
self driving cars like comma.ai done by george hotz (dropout from college) ? (and it's one of the best self driving software out there) Of course you need to study(a lot), but a degree is not required.
alkonaut 9y ago
> It depends on how you define "data science". I think the widely accepted definition is "Statistics, but on a Mac"
- SimbaOnSteroids 9y ago
  Shots fired??? I'm new to the startup community, e.g. still in school but excited about startups, is there a general aversion to Windows and why is that?
  - natbobc 9y ago
    TLDR; 1. Start-ups love OSS. OSS loves NIX. 2. Mac's just work (mostly). 3. Cult of Apple. 1. OSS is generally free. Windows software, esp. on the server side, tends not to be. For a start-up it means you might need to invest some sweat but you can spend your cash elsewhere (typically on hires or feeding yourself). OS X being a NIX allows easier porting of OSS than Windows. 2. Apple tech has a reputation for "just working" and continuing to work. Windows is still perceived to need a spring cleaning to reinstall it every year or so to keep it purring. Apple being a closed ecosystem from end-to-end doesn't have to support as much random stuff as MS. It keeps the problem space narrow and presumably that results in higher reliability. 3. The cult of Apple. Apple has a brand that is perceived as creative, fun, enlightened, whatever. MS is viewed as big enterprise. , which is often the Goliath that start-ups are looking to slay. -- Anecdotally one company I was an early "many hats" hire I standardised on Macs because it meant less effort for support and licensing was easier. If someones Mac was acting up/it fell down the stairs we could swap the drive to another machine and not faff with driver setup. If someone left the company, we could easily transfer the licenses which isn't always as straight forward between Windows and OS X. One drawback is that we had one developer who preferred Windows. He was probably less productive than he could've been as a result. I would generally advocate to allow developers to pick their hardware when they start and take it when they leave. Once the company was big enough for a full-time IT support staff we diversified but it's a tradeoff either way.
    - SimbaOnSteroids 9y ago
jtcond13 9y ago
+1 to this. SQL + Logistic regression creates millions of dollars in business value every year. Some of that could be yours!
monster_group 9y ago
"If you say that data science starts with automating stock trading or building the intelligence of self driving cars, than no, you can not teach yourself data science. You will need at least one degree. Or more.". Isn't it a little presumptive telling others they can't teach themselves something? Or do you mean to imply that they can't get a job without a degree? Those are different things.

StavrosK 9y ago

> no, you can not teach yourself data science. You will need at least one degree. Or more. Why not? What is it that prevents anyone from learning anything without getting a degree? I disagree with your statement, I think it might be harder, but I don't think anyone "cannot teach themselves X".

haggy 9y ago
I agree with parts of both statements. On one hand, if you're looking to seriously get into data science then it's going to be hard to even get interviews with companies that are looking for real data scientists without those pieces of paper (diplomas). On the other hand, I agree that with enough dedication and effort you can teach yourself anything (after all, university is largely just you teaching yourself with the help of a schedule set by an institution).
- thewarrior 9y ago
  I don't want to design the next self driving car. Just design models that deliver business value.
- gorbachev 9y ago
  My company is hiring data scientists all the time. Nobody looks at the education section of the resume of the candidates we get. We look at what the person has actually done, and then we interview to make sure the resume wasn't filled with lies about that experience.
  - StavrosK 9y ago
    That has been my experience as well. Not a single person has ever asked me "what's your degree", but everyone looks at my projects and past work.
treyfitty 9y ago
Business fundamentals rely on norms, whether we like it or not. As a society, we rely on credentialing for complex matters. Sure, while anyone can absolutely learn to build a self driving car without a degree, here are two very likely paths as a result: 1. Company hires this data scientist, but regulators are skeptical of the efficacy of his/her implementation. 2. Companies adopt this notion that everyone can be a data scientist, build self driving cars, and the cars turn out to be a very error prone, imposing harm. Businesses have to set a bar somewhere to ensure their expected return on data scientist is positive. Just like pharma execs & investors vet their scientists, highly complex data science positions will require convincing the players (investors, regulators...etc.) that your guy is legit. A pharma company would never endorse Walter White as their scientist responsible for delivering drugs.
soVeryTired 9y ago
It's quite possible that you can teach yourself a lot of the relevant background. If you read David Barber's book cover to cover and do all the problems, that's a machine learning masters' course covered. But the problem is that you're competing against job applicants who already have a degree in machine learning. So it will often be the case that you're lucky to make it past an initial HR screen. If they want to interview ten people, life is easier for them to pick ten who already have the right piece of paper.
- StavrosK 9y ago
  Hah, I couldn't read that book when I was taking his class, it's not likely I'll start now. However, to your point, "you can't teach yourself" and "you can't get a job just by reading a book" aren't the same thing. I'm not so sure you can't get a job by teaching yourself machine learning and making your own self-driving toy car or some other fun project, though.
  - soVeryTired 9y ago
    If someone can't understand barber, I don't think they've taught themselves machine learning. I think they've taught themselves to plug data into an off-the-shelf model.
NumberCruncher 9y ago
I may be biased because I am from a country where the first degree was for free and we did not have to pay tuition fee. At that time "I can teach myself X" meant "I can teach myself X so why not have a paper about it?". A lot of us are on the job market and you compete with us.
stupidhn 9y ago
>What is it that prevents anyone from learning anything without getting a degree? The people with advanced degrees want to protect the value of their investment. As others have noted, the reality is you can generate a ton of value to business by "learned at home data science". Will you be doing cutting edge ML research? Of course not. But 99.9% of everyday problems can be solved with simple tools.

CCing 9y ago

self driving cars like comma.ai done by george hotz (dropout from college) ? (and it's one of the best self driving software out there) Of course you need to study(a lot), but a degree is not required.

alkonaut 9y ago

> It depends on how you define "data science". I think the widely accepted definition is "Statistics, but on a Mac"

SimbaOnSteroids 9y ago
Shots fired??? I'm new to the startup community, e.g. still in school but excited about startups, is there a general aversion to Windows and why is that?
- natbobc 9y ago
  TLDR; 1. Start-ups love OSS. OSS loves NIX. 2. Mac's just work (mostly). 3. Cult of Apple. 1. OSS is generally free. Windows software, esp. on the server side, tends not to be. For a start-up it means you might need to invest some sweat but you can spend your cash elsewhere (typically on hires or feeding yourself). OS X being a NIX allows easier porting of OSS than Windows. 2. Apple tech has a reputation for "just working" and continuing to work. Windows is still perceived to need a spring cleaning to reinstall it every year or so to keep it purring. Apple being a closed ecosystem from end-to-end doesn't have to support as much random stuff as MS. It keeps the problem space narrow and presumably that results in higher reliability. 3. The cult of Apple. Apple has a brand that is perceived as creative, fun, enlightened, whatever. MS is viewed as big enterprise. , which is often the Goliath that start-ups are looking to slay. -- Anecdotally one company I was an early "many hats" hire I standardised on Macs because it meant less effort for support and licensing was easier. If someones Mac was acting up/it fell down the stairs we could swap the drive to another machine and not faff with driver setup. If someone left the company, we could easily transfer the licenses which isn't always as straight forward between Windows and OS X. One drawback is that we had one developer who preferred Windows. He was probably less productive than he could've been as a result. I would generally advocate to allow developers to pick their hardware when they start and take it when they leave. Once the company was big enough for a full-time IT support staff we diversified but it's a tradeoff either way.
  - SimbaOnSteroids 9y ago

jtcond13 9y ago

+1 to this. SQL + Logistic regression creates millions of dollars in business value every year. Some of that could be yours!

monster_group 9y ago

"If you say that data science starts with automating stock trading or building the intelligence of self driving cars, than no, you can not teach yourself data science. You will need at least one degree. Or more.". Isn't it a little presumptive telling others they can't teach themselves something? Or do you mean to imply that they can't get a job without a degree? Those are different things.