> expressing actual ideas (as opposed to ad hominem insults) I think this would be a reasonable working definition of civility. Semantics aside, I agree with

> expressing actual ideas (as opposed to ad hominem insults) I think this would be a reasonable working definition of civility. Semantics aside, I agree with you except about the vitriol. It's an arms race: if vitriol gets you taken more seriously, people are going to be vitriolic whether they feel it or not. And then when it really matters to them.... (And eventually the ideas get drowned out by the take me seriously! metadata.)