4 ms·

Or, we just learn to be more frugal when it comes to higher education. It doesn't matter at all where I get my diploma from, I just need one to get anywhere. If

by younata 16y ago

Or, we just learn to be more frugal when it comes to higher education. It doesn't matter at all where I get my diploma from, I just need one to get anywhere. If I can manage to go to a public college and pay <10k a year for it, that's awesome. If I can get other people, such as scholarship places, or the university itself, to give me enough money, I can essentially get a "free" higher education. I have a good friend whose family is paying nothing for him to attend UCLA. Personally, I'm not so lucky/dilligent about applying for scholarships.

gaius 16y ago
The value of a Harvard (or any elite college) education is not in what you learn but in the brand name. That is what people are willing to pay a fortune for. And the brand name does have a value associated with it - it cuts down on the friction of getting through the initial stages to an interview at which a hiring decision will be made, for example. Is this right or wrong? Well, if historically graduates from a certain college have been a safe bet, then there is value for an organization in continuing to hire from there (even if only in time saved). If historically access to an alumni network is valuable, then that has value. Etc, etc. That's not to say they don't offer a great education, and a great experience of being immersed in a world where everyone is smart and ambitious for a few years. Similarly that immersion is part of the education. But that is another little secret: elite colleges only admit students who would succeed regardless. I attended an elite college for undergrad (which one doesn't matter) and viewed from that side, it's hard to see if it actually made a difference in my career vs any college. I've never explicitly seen an interviewer be impressed by it. But behind the scenes, for example, I don't see if there were a hundred applicants and mine made it through the initial screening because of that.
- rdtsc 16y ago
  In some fields the value should be better determined by one's previous work (the portfolio). That has traditionally been true for designers and artist for example, but today it should also be true for software developers. There are so many open source projects that companies should be asked "what open source project have you contributed to?" and "show and explain that code to me". Basically that is what got me my job. My GPA was high and I worked my butt off for 5 years to get it, but it was a small open source project that got noticed and used as the basis of selection.
  - gaius 16y ago
    I agree, and 5 years out of college no-one should care where you went, or at least, care very little compared to what you did in the meantime. But like I say, you don't get to see what happens behind the scenes. The truth is, it's human nature to seek out the pre-qualified, and all other things being equal (as they are with a fresh graduate) diploma + brand will always beat diploma alone. It's interesting you mention open source. Sometimes I interview kids who claim x years experience and what they mean is, "I've been programming since I was 8 years old". Which is great but experience here means a) stuff you were paid to do or b) in a well-known open source package (e.g. Apache). The experience a company is interested in is experience not of coding but of "transforming a spec into a product".

by younata 16y ago

gaius 16y ago

The value of a Harvard (or any elite college) education is not in what you learn but in the brand name. That is what people are willing to pay a fortune for. And the brand name does have a value associated with it - it cuts down on the friction of getting through the initial stages to an interview at which a hiring decision will be made, for example. Is this right or wrong? Well, if historically graduates from a certain college have been a safe bet, then there is value for an organization in continuing to hire from there (even if only in time saved). If historically access to an alumni network is valuable, then that has value. Etc, etc. That's not to say they don't offer a great education, and a great experience of being immersed in a world where everyone is smart and ambitious for a few years. Similarly that immersion is part of the education. But that is another little secret: elite colleges only admit students who would succeed regardless. I attended an elite college for undergrad (which one doesn't matter) and viewed from that side, it's hard to see if it actually made a difference in my career vs any college. I've never explicitly seen an interviewer be impressed by it. But behind the scenes, for example, I don't see if there were a hundred applicants and mine made it through the initial screening because of that.

rdtsc 16y ago
In some fields the value should be better determined by one's previous work (the portfolio). That has traditionally been true for designers and artist for example, but today it should also be true for software developers. There are so many open source projects that companies should be asked "what open source project have you contributed to?" and "show and explain that code to me". Basically that is what got me my job. My GPA was high and I worked my butt off for 5 years to get it, but it was a small open source project that got noticed and used as the basis of selection.
- gaius 16y ago
  I agree, and 5 years out of college no-one should care where you went, or at least, care very little compared to what you did in the meantime. But like I say, you don't get to see what happens behind the scenes. The truth is, it's human nature to seek out the pre-qualified, and all other things being equal (as they are with a fresh graduate) diploma + brand will always beat diploma alone. It's interesting you mention open source. Sometimes I interview kids who claim x years experience and what they mean is, "I've been programming since I was 8 years old". Which is great but experience here means a) stuff you were paid to do or b) in a well-known open source package (e.g. Apache). The experience a company is interested in is experience not of coding but of "transforming a spec into a product".