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Puerto Rico becoming a state would solve a bunch of their problems in the long run. Even with the problems listed in the article their economic situation from

by sqeaky 9y ago

Puerto Rico becoming a state would solve a bunch of their problems in the long run. Even with the problems listed in the article their economic situation from the the 90s to now was not unmanageable, it was corruption and corporate collusion to extract the maximum amount of money from the island that expanded the problems to their current levels. Becoming a state would put enough regulation and oversight in place to make those problems go away, or at least put their corruption on the same level as a normal US state. The short run... There will be problems.

chimeracoder 9y ago
> Becoming a state would put enough regulation and oversight in place to make those problems go away, or at least put their corruption on the same level as a normal US state. Becoming a state wouldn't fix the combined impact of NAFTA + the Jones Act, which alone is enough to wipe out the economy[0]. Corruption may be a cherry on top, but eliminating that doesn't solve the problem that there is simply no way they can export anything at a competitive rate, and that they also can't import things they need at reasonable prices either. And becoming a state is in Puerto Rico's best interests, but it doesn't fix this problem either. Hawaii is suffering as well from the Jones Act - the difference is that Hawaii's economy was slightly less dependent on NAFTA-affected trade, and over 20% of Hawaii's economy comes from the military and national defense. So Puerto Rico is hit harder, but not for reasons that would be solved by statehood. [0] NAFTA itself would not have been as much of a problem for Puerto Rico if it weren't for the Jones Act, so it's specifically the combination of both that's relevant.
- dbjacobs 9y ago
  Hawaii definitely needs an exemption from the Jones act. It is crazy that goods from Asia to Hawaii go through California because if the non US flagged ship stops in Hawaii, it can't continue to California. As stated, statehood would not solve this part of the problem for Puerto Rico (i.e., they would need a Jones Act exemption as well).
  - uiri 9y ago
    Wouldn't going from Hawai'i -> Canada/Mexico -> US solve this? Similarly for Puerto Rico, wouldn't Florida -> The Bahamas -> Puerto Rico solve some of the issues? The only issue with adding foreign stops is the additional import/export regulations. NAFTA solves some of that for an intermediary stop in Canada/Mexico, but doesn't do much to help Puerto Rico's situation.
  - flukus 9y ago
    I never knew there was a rule against that. Wouldn't it potentially drop the cost and environmental impact of trans pacific cargo if hawaii was used as a refueling station?
- sqeaky 9y ago
  > there is simply no way they can export anything at a competitive rate Statehood itself might not directly solve this, but it would get them representation. Two senators and a handful of congressmen can solve a great deal of problems. I agree the export situation is not ideal. I disagree that this is the a game-ending proposition for the Puerto Rican economy. Without corruption, or at least some corruption mitigation the state of Puerto Rico could at least move in one direction... One direction, speaking of famous people Did you Ricky Martin, Benicio Del Toro and Joaquin Phoenix are all Puerto Rican. Did you know that there are software companies there, mostly boring B2B and financial stuff because of the friendly tax situation there. It seems a real place with real people can produce Stars and Software even when there is corruption. Imagine if they could use some federal funds to clean up the broken glass and old plastic from their beaches while they clean out their oligopoly. An actual tourism industry with actual competition. Exports can be important or can be minor. Clearly it is not the only thing in $103 billion per year economy of Puerto Rico. Consider that Nebraska (I keep using NE because the other half of my family is there) is only generating $80 billion per year and is landlocked so the Nebraskan export situation is even worse and few are attesting to the dire state here.
gozur88 9y ago
I can see why Puerto Rico would want to become a state, but why would the US want Puerto Rico to become a state?
- gumby 9y ago
  I don't understand your question: why would they not? The only reason against it I can see is a short term one: if PR were seen to add a Party X congressional delegation, Party Y might try to block statehood.
  - gozur88 9y ago
    >I don't understand your question: why would they not? Because the new obligations we'd be taking on wouldn't be offset by the benefits.
    - sqeaky 9y ago
      In the short term that might be true. In the long term it seems likely that adding 3.5 million people (Twice the population of Nebraska), mostly in a single metro area, would contribute to the economy and society in a beneficial way. As it is now they cost us more, getting them to be more self sufficient like every state is, would cost us less even if they never contributed after they fixed their problems. Then there is the human side of this. Sentences like "Because the new obligations we'd be taking on wouldn't be offset by the benefits" entirely ignore the human cost. These are our fellow Americans and we are willing to just let them suffer. It says something that we don't help them, and it says something different if we do.
      - toomuchtodo 9y ago
        Thank you for your last paragraph. You don't see much compassion for others on HN (IMHO).

by sqeaky 9y ago

chimeracoder 9y ago

> Becoming a state would put enough regulation and oversight in place to make those problems go away, or at least put their corruption on the same level as a normal US state. Becoming a state wouldn't fix the combined impact of NAFTA + the Jones Act, which alone is enough to wipe out the economy[0]. Corruption may be a cherry on top, but eliminating that doesn't solve the problem that there is simply no way they can export anything at a competitive rate, and that they also can't import things they need at reasonable prices either. And becoming a state is in Puerto Rico's best interests, but it doesn't fix this problem either. Hawaii is suffering as well from the Jones Act - the difference is that Hawaii's economy was slightly less dependent on NAFTA-affected trade, and over 20% of Hawaii's economy comes from the military and national defense. So Puerto Rico is hit harder, but not for reasons that would be solved by statehood. [0] NAFTA itself would not have been as much of a problem for Puerto Rico if it weren't for the Jones Act, so it's specifically the combination of both that's relevant.

dbjacobs 9y ago
Hawaii definitely needs an exemption from the Jones act. It is crazy that goods from Asia to Hawaii go through California because if the non US flagged ship stops in Hawaii, it can't continue to California. As stated, statehood would not solve this part of the problem for Puerto Rico (i.e., they would need a Jones Act exemption as well).
- uiri 9y ago
  Wouldn't going from Hawai'i -> Canada/Mexico -> US solve this? Similarly for Puerto Rico, wouldn't Florida -> The Bahamas -> Puerto Rico solve some of the issues? The only issue with adding foreign stops is the additional import/export regulations. NAFTA solves some of that for an intermediary stop in Canada/Mexico, but doesn't do much to help Puerto Rico's situation.
- flukus 9y ago
  I never knew there was a rule against that. Wouldn't it potentially drop the cost and environmental impact of trans pacific cargo if hawaii was used as a refueling station?
sqeaky 9y ago
> there is simply no way they can export anything at a competitive rate Statehood itself might not directly solve this, but it would get them representation. Two senators and a handful of congressmen can solve a great deal of problems. I agree the export situation is not ideal. I disagree that this is the a game-ending proposition for the Puerto Rican economy. Without corruption, or at least some corruption mitigation the state of Puerto Rico could at least move in one direction... One direction, speaking of famous people Did you Ricky Martin, Benicio Del Toro and Joaquin Phoenix are all Puerto Rican. Did you know that there are software companies there, mostly boring B2B and financial stuff because of the friendly tax situation there. It seems a real place with real people can produce Stars and Software even when there is corruption. Imagine if they could use some federal funds to clean up the broken glass and old plastic from their beaches while they clean out their oligopoly. An actual tourism industry with actual competition. Exports can be important or can be minor. Clearly it is not the only thing in $103 billion per year economy of Puerto Rico. Consider that Nebraska (I keep using NE because the other half of my family is there) is only generating $80 billion per year and is landlocked so the Nebraskan export situation is even worse and few are attesting to the dire state here.

gozur88 9y ago

I can see why Puerto Rico would want to become a state, but why would the US want Puerto Rico to become a state?

gumby 9y ago
I don't understand your question: why would they not? The only reason against it I can see is a short term one: if PR were seen to add a Party X congressional delegation, Party Y might try to block statehood.
- gozur88 9y ago
  >I don't understand your question: why would they not? Because the new obligations we'd be taking on wouldn't be offset by the benefits.
  - sqeaky 9y ago
    In the short term that might be true. In the long term it seems likely that adding 3.5 million people (Twice the population of Nebraska), mostly in a single metro area, would contribute to the economy and society in a beneficial way. As it is now they cost us more, getting them to be more self sufficient like every state is, would cost us less even if they never contributed after they fixed their problems. Then there is the human side of this. Sentences like "Because the new obligations we'd be taking on wouldn't be offset by the benefits" entirely ignore the human cost. These are our fellow Americans and we are willing to just let them suffer. It says something that we don't help them, and it says something different if we do.
    - toomuchtodo 9y ago
      Thank you for your last paragraph. You don't see much compassion for others on HN (IMHO).