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> I find it astonishing that startup indie devs pay out for an office, with all the extra bills that entails. Work from home, keep your overheads as close to ze

• johnwheeler 9y ago
  Library?
  • raamdev 9y ago
    > I tried cafes and libraries but, oddly, they no longer worked for me—the noise and the people walking by suddenly became a huge distraction.
    • devgutt 9y ago
      For me, the reason is different. I don't mind people walking or even talking nearby, but I really hate the process of pack/unpack. Before work, I need to setup the laptop, the cables, the IP to access my local server from Android, get notebooks, pens, ohh my earphones, and a lot more, only then I can jump to work for maybe 2-3 hours (I feel a little uneasy to stay longer in the cafe). If you are working alone, the bathroom is more complicated. Oh and the outlet. And internet... It doesn't work for me. Office is my only option, because I want everything ready to start immediately.
      • otterpro 9y ago
        Me too. I tried the library but it took too much effort to setup and tear down every time I needed to move (such as restroom break, lunch, quick break). Also, it would be impossible to have access to a nice large monitor.
• eequah9L 9y ago
  Same here. I started renting an office this month after about 10 years of working from home. Same reason: family is growing and the apartment is not large enough to isolate me well enough.
• _eht 9y ago
  I have also been working out of my garage for the last eight years and I'm just now in the process of finding an office. I don't have any kids, but I still feel like I'm going stir crazy. Sometimes you just need to put some distance between where you sleep and where you work.
  • raamdev 9y ago
    This. The longer I 'work from home' the more I discover the importance of separate physical spaces for certain activities. If I spend enough time on entertainment in the same space that I work all day, over time working in that space seems to become more and more 'energetically mixed' (for lack of a better term) and it seems to get harder to focus on specific non-entertainment tasks. I now refuse to eat, sleep, or indulge in entertainment in the same space that I work. I don't even let myself read fiction books where I work. I try to do all deep thinking while walking outside, read fiction in bed before sleeping, and only work while standing at my desk.
    • ex3xu 9y ago
      I'd theorize that this has something to do with the fact that the hippocampus is implicated in both determining locational context (for navigation) as well as task management and executive function. I've read a bunch of books on the topic of willpower that indicate that decision-making is a fairly expensive on a metabolic level, so this makes sense to me -- it's like you're minimizing the array of actions from which your hippocampus has to scan when it determines what to work on from locational context.
  • enraged_camel 9y ago
    I work from home. Here's how I get around this: after waking up and having breakfast, I go for a short (~10 minute) walk or bike ride around the block. When I get back, I start working. That kind of "fake commute" is sufficient to trick my brain into separating work from everything else I do in the same space.
    • mighty_atomic_c 9y ago
• Neil44 9y ago
  Ditto, I worked from home for 7 years before my daughter came along. The last two years I've been at an office are the most profitable two years I've eved had. Also, when I go home, I'm 100% present with my family not distracted about getting more work done.
• hire_charts 9y ago
  $350/mo seems _extremely_ reasonable for a quiet studio. I don't think that's the kind of office expense the poster was talking about. For instance, in NYC, $350/month would barely get you a "hot desk" (i.e. chair at a table) in a coworking space.
  • ninjakeyboard 9y ago
    We pay $3000 a month for our startup for a small 3-4 person private office room in a shared space.
  • pjc50 9y ago
    Yes, but if you're self-funded every dollar is taken out of your "runway".
    • gwbas1c 9y ago
      Or out of your profit, assuming you're making money. :)
      • Arizhel 9y ago
        Partially. It's a business expense, so at least you get to deduct it from your taxes.
  • deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  • ice109 9y ago
    there are artist studios in east williamsburg that are about ~500. my buddy's even has fios.
  • davemac8 9y ago
    I'm a solo dev, paying $550 AUD a month for a permanent desk at a great open plan tech community space. It's in an inner city suburb (Richmond) which is the tech hub of Melbourne, Australia. I live about 22K out of town, in the green wedge with lots of trees. I like how I am still physically connected each day to the vibrant Melbourne tech community, but can come home to the family and be in a more open, natural space. I am so much more productive when I am in the office and it works well, when meeting clients, to have an address in town. Best tax-deductible money I have ever spent.
• Alupis 9y ago
  I think the real lesson that's being conveyed is "Don't gear up like you're a successful business until you are a successful business". > When your game sells and makes some money, treat it in terms of how many years you’ve got until you’d have to get a ‘proper job’ > I’d released three games before I went ‘full time’, and my 4th was just about ready to launch. The first games were made in my spare time while my Real Job paid for my food and rent, because honestly fuck starving yourself, fuck living on beans and worrying about rent. Go Full Indie when you can afford to Go Full Indie, and not before If you're just starting out, making your first game in this case, it makes no sense to spend a ton on office space, designers, etc. You have no income yet... one step at a time sort-of-thing. Too many people fall in love with the idea of running a business, but don't actually know what that really means. They run around organizing things, setting up office space, getting logo's designed by fancy marketing companies, hold meetings, etc... they do everything except figure out how to make money. They love the idea of being a business, but not the actual work that comes with that territory.
  • ryandrake 9y ago
    Wow that hits home. Been there, done that. Pro-tip, especially for Californians: If you're on a shoe string budget, don't go set up any kind of tax or business entity before you have revenue. Paying CA's $800 LLC tax and paying an accountant $400 to write "$0" on your tax return every year is a pointless waste of money. Ask me how I know.
    • Justin_K 9y ago
      But with a legitimate entity, you can deduct all kinds of legitimate business expenses to offset the minimum $800 tax. It's handy to write off the losses during your startup years. Doing business as a sole proprietor and filing losses is asking for an audit, which can be very time consuming. Doing the same as a legitimate business entity is far less likely to end up in an audit.
  • yetihehe 9y ago
    > ... they do everything except figure out how to make money. They love the idea of being a business, but not the actual work that comes with that territory. We should call them "cargo cult businessmen".
• ninjakeyboard 9y ago
  Agreed. Starting a company (6 months in) - it's hard to work from home. Worth the money to have an office and not only that but the routine.
• ryandrake 9y ago
  I remember when I was looking to move houses a while back and we saw one WAY out in the boonies that was otherwise unremarkable but had a small, but physically separate "in-law house" in the back, that had a bedroom, a tiny kitchen (enough room for a fridge and microwave) and a tiny bathroom. We didn't move there but I couldn't stop thinking about how well something like that would fit as a work-from-home office. Currently, with a wife, a kid, and all her kid-friends, carrying on loudly and ransacking the house at all hours, I couldn't imagine making a "bedroom converted to office" work for actual productive remote work. Too bad these in-law houses (or nanny houses) are so rare in the Bay Area. Where I used to live in Florida they were all over the place.
  • ChuckMcM 9y ago
    I was extremely fortunate to be able to get a house with a 'lab' over the garage. The previous owners had built it as a sort of 'party' room with a wet bar and a small toilet. Makes an excellent 'home' office.
  • Arizhel 9y ago
    >Currently, with a wife, a kid, and all her kid-friends, carrying on loudly and ransacking the house at all hours, I couldn't imagine making a "bedroom converted to office" work for actual productive remote work. I can't imagine making a setup like this work for even maintaining basic sanity. Every time I read a post like this, I realize I did the right thing by not having kids. I'm constantly stressed out as it is because of the open-plan office; if I had to come home to people "carrying on loudly and ransacking the house at all hours", I think I'd shoot myself. How people can live without a good amount of peace and quiet, I have no idea.
    • makapuf 9y ago
      Your body will trick your mind to love your children. It happens often after the fact - I know it did. Humanity wouldn't survive if not. And I now find hard not to go ransacking the house with them ;)
      • 9y ago
• vog 9y ago
  > I tried cafes and libraries but, oddly, they no longer worked for me—the noise and the people walking by suddenly became a huge distraction. I see that issue with cafés, but I never had such an issue with libraries. At least the libraries I know are very quiet and their staff takes great care to keep it quiet. My problem with the library was that on some days, I needed to phone quite often, or was called quite often. Each time I had to leave the library temporarily, and this in-and-out was very annoying for me. > rent a tiny artist studio for $350/mo Wow, that's still quite a lot. Did you try co-working spaces? Roughly speaking, there you pay for a desk in a room, not for a whole appartment.
  • c0nfused 9y ago
    The coworking spaces nearest me are priced at 250$/seat /month for the lowest level plan and I am in a cheaper city than most. That doesn't include a desk that's yours, just that you can come in every day and use the space. Your own desk starts at the price point for his office. If your goal is peace and quiet, I would argue his studio is money well spent. Source:http://www.804rva.com/memberships.html http://www.804rva.com/memberships.html
    • vog 9y ago
      I first thought that this is quite expensive (250$ are roughly 230€), but then I had a look at local offers here in Berlin. Here it is 210€/month, so only slightly cheaper. However, you can get a cheaper place if you use it only part-time. Source: https://members.co-up.de/ https://members.co-up.de/
• nonsensetophat 9y ago
  I rent an office with a buddy in the NY metro area for about $350 each, its about a 6 minute walk from my apt. Best investment I could make, if I only work a few extra hours a week because of it then it pays for itself. Thats just me tho some people are fine working from home.
• mstade 9y ago
  I kill two birds with one stone: my apartment is actually two in disguise. I have two front doors, one leading to a third of the apartment (it's a rather large 4-bed) which is quite literally closed off from the rest by simply locking the internal door that connects the two. It may sound silly to have to literally exit the apartment to enter the office when it's literally next door, but it does have some value. Also it makes it much easier for tax purposes. Consequently a third of my rent is paid by my company, because it rents it as office space. Maybe it sounds weird or immoral or whatever, but it truly is office space and 100% legit, it just happens to be I'm also the landlord.
  • brianwawok 9y ago
    Was it built as an inlaw suite or something? That sounds like a sweet setup.
    • dexterdog 9y ago
      A sweet suite if you will.
      • elliotec 9y ago
        Oh, I will
    • mstade 9y ago
      I have no idea. It was built quite recently, in 2005 I think, and on the lease it just says "space available to let" or something like that. I've lived here since 2006 or so, but only recently started using the apartment like this. It's perfect!
    • deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  • cortesoft 9y ago
    This isn't really different than renting an office, just that your office is REALLY close to your apartment.
• brndnmtthws 9y ago
  You can get shared space in a WeWork for about $350/month. Includes coffee, water, great internet, and if you're like me and enjoy interacting with humans, it does the trick. This is my preferred situation these days. Plus, when you travel, you can use WeWorks around the world (for a nominal fee). I even made a video about it: https://youtu.be/912WN4gUBCs https://youtu.be/912WN4gUBCs Edit: I'm not affiliated with WeWork (aside from being a customer). I just like their business.
  • ianamartin 9y ago
    My experience with coworking spaces in NYC (specifically WeWork and Coworkrs) is that there's very little in the way of peace and quiet there--especially at the lowest price point. If you need to take calls, too bad. It's like trying to work out of a frat house most of the time. It's probably totally fine for certain types of work, but for me it wasn't a good place when you had to really focus on solving problems and writing code. Way too many distractions.
    • brndnmtthws 9y ago
      Indeed, it's the equivalent of working in an "open floor plan" office.
• matchagaucho 9y ago
  I've waffled on office location several times. My equilibrium is "home office first", use WeWork or shared office spaces for one-day to meet with clients, and use AirBnB for #DigitalNomad "workations".
• edpichler 9y ago
  I totally understand you, you basically described what the book I am reading now: "Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking" by Susan Cain. It also explains the cons about these brand new "wide noise open offices" that companies are building today.
• flippyhead 9y ago
  Hmm, I'm starting to notice this too (I have a ~3 year old) and it kind of worries me. Aging brain I guess.
• coldtea 9y ago
  >I've been a solo dev for nearly a decade (8 years) and I found that sometimes it makes complete sense to pay for an office. Before my daughter was born, I was able to work from almost anywhere: noisy cafes, at home, the library, etc. But after she was born it was like my brain needed a space away from home where I could close a door and have a room all to myself, a place where I couldn't hear family sounds or be within walking distance of anyone I knew. Or you could invest in some sound insulation and a good lock.