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My comment ended with a question. The point was to gain an understanding of why this process is common and/or useful. I'm interested because I work in a relate

by phaus 9y ago

My comment ended with a question. The point was to gain an understanding of why this process is common and/or useful. I'm interested because I work in a related field and I may eventually try to become a developer. I was just curious why this is viewed as useful when it seems so easy to me, a person that isn't ready to be a developer. Another reason I'm curious is because it's hard for someone learning to program to determine what the barrier to entry is. As in, how much do I need to know before I apply for a junior role? I don't like wasting people's' time.

mattmanser 9y ago
Ah, ok. There are three things you probably don't realize. 1. While you think anyone can learn fizzbuzz on day 1, a significant proportion of the population do not grasp the logic behind variables and loops (40% I seem to remember, don't quote me). AFAIK the argument about why this is still rages, it might be because we're terrible at teaching programming logic, or it might be that they're really not capable. These people can still graduate with a CS degree. 2. There's loads of people who apply for jobs that have absolutely no experience. Lies, half-truths, etc. This happens in all fields. They believe they can learn on the job, not knowing what they don't know. 3. The basic math of bad applicants vs good applicants. Good applicants only apply for a handful jobs (or none at all!). Bad applicants will make hundreds or even thousands of applications trying to get the job they want. See Joel's "Everyone thinks they’re hiring the top 1%": https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2005/01/27/news-58/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2005/01/27/news-58/ 1 + 2 + 3 = lots of fizzbuzz failures Making FizzBuzz a great way of weeding them all out.
- Arizhel 9y ago
  >a significant proportion of the population do not grasp the logic behind variables and loops (40% I seem to remember, don't quote me). >These people can still graduate with a CS degree. How the heck can someone graduate with a CS degree without grasping variables and loops? These are fundamental to computer programming. Variables are fundamental to algebra. You can't get a CS degree without knowing algebra. Are you talking about some kind of diploma-mill degrees or something?
  - sotojuan 9y ago
    A lot of CS degrees are easier than you think. Tons of cheating + disinterested professors = grads who can't code.

by phaus 9y ago

mattmanser 9y ago

Ah, ok. There are three things you probably don't realize. 1. While you think anyone can learn fizzbuzz on day 1, a significant proportion of the population do not grasp the logic behind variables and loops (40% I seem to remember, don't quote me). AFAIK the argument about why this is still rages, it might be because we're terrible at teaching programming logic, or it might be that they're really not capable. These people can still graduate with a CS degree. 2. There's loads of people who apply for jobs that have absolutely no experience. Lies, half-truths, etc. This happens in all fields. They believe they can learn on the job, not knowing what they don't know. 3. The basic math of bad applicants vs good applicants. Good applicants only apply for a handful jobs (or none at all!). Bad applicants will make hundreds or even thousands of applications trying to get the job they want. See Joel's "Everyone thinks they’re hiring the top 1%": https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2005/01/27/news-58/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2005/01/27/news-58/ 1 + 2 + 3 = lots of fizzbuzz failures Making FizzBuzz a great way of weeding them all out.

Arizhel 9y ago
>a significant proportion of the population do not grasp the logic behind variables and loops (40% I seem to remember, don't quote me). >These people can still graduate with a CS degree. How the heck can someone graduate with a CS degree without grasping variables and loops? These are fundamental to computer programming. Variables are fundamental to algebra. You can't get a CS degree without knowing algebra. Are you talking about some kind of diploma-mill degrees or something?
- sotojuan 9y ago
  A lot of CS degrees are easier than you think. Tons of cheating + disinterested professors = grads who can't code.