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In a company having the right to vote means you're a shareholder. Citizens are shareholders of their own countries. Also, people get too fixated on the right t

In a company having the right to vote means you're a shareholder. Citizens are shareholders of their own countries. Also, people get too fixated on the right to vote. That's not what defines a democracy, it's just a means to an end. A democracy is defined by a set of liberal values and freedoms and the vote is there to prevent those values and freedoms from being taken away. > he can do whatever he want with what he owns, not permissions needed Well, big companies have multiple owners, so one owner cannot do what he wants unless he has a majority. Also a company is subject to market forces, customers voting with their wallet. So really, an owner can only do what he wants for as long as (1) he can afford it and (2) his peers tolerate it. In a society we are all interconnected. People that fuckup get marginalised.

JackFr 10y ago
> In a company having the right to vote means you're a shareholder. Citizens are shareholders of their own countries. Being a shareholder means you have volunteered part of your personal treasure to be part of an on going enterprise in the hopes of earning more treasure. In the modern world, native citizens put nothing up for their vote. Taxes are not voluntary, nor are they required for a vote. > Also, people get too fixated on the right to vote. That's not what defines a democracy, That is simply, plainly wrong. Words don't change to mean what you want them to mean. The essence of democracy, that which literally defines it, is voting. >Well, big companies have multiple owners, so one owner cannot do what he wants unless he has a majority. Also a company is subject to market forces, customers voting with their wallet. So really, an owner can only do what he wants for as long as (1) he can afford it and (2) his peers tolerate it. Your thinking is very muddy.
- bad_user 10y ago
  > The essence of democracy, that which literally defines it, is voting No dude, party members in the Eastern Europe's communists countries also voted. Our dictators called our stalinism a democracy. The essence of democracy is the rule of law and the individual freedoms of the citizens, which makes it possible for citizens to participate, the vote being a means to an end and not being possible without the rule of law and without those freedoms. And I'm not assuming too much here, but within this context, my opinion is that if you haven't lived under some form of dictatorship, you don't know what you're talking about.
  - JackFr 10y ago
    I take your point about the fetishization of voting in the modern West. It is sometimes taken to silly extremes. And I agree that voting is not sufficient for democracy. But I still maintain voting is necessary. Democracy is government of the people. Late Latin from Greek dēmokratia, from dēmos ‘the people’ + -kratia ‘power, rule.’ I don't know of any mechanism other than voting for gleaning the popular will. > my opinion is that if you haven't lived under some form of dictatorship, you don't know what you're talking about. I cam't agree with that. Your experiences make you special, as do mine me. But if you really believe what you wrote, no further discourse from you can enlighten me or others until we too have lived under despotism.
    - TheCoelacanth 10y ago
      > I don't know of any mechanism other than voting for gleaning the popular will. Sortition (choosing public officials randomly) is one possibility.
  - selimthegrim 10y ago
    Democratic centralism FTW!
systems 10y ago
i said this in another reply if you cant sell it, you dont own it citizens cannot sell their shares of citizenship, they are not like shareholders

JackFr 10y ago

> In a company having the right to vote means you're a shareholder. Citizens are shareholders of their own countries. Being a shareholder means you have volunteered part of your personal treasure to be part of an on going enterprise in the hopes of earning more treasure. In the modern world, native citizens put nothing up for their vote. Taxes are not voluntary, nor are they required for a vote. > Also, people get too fixated on the right to vote. That's not what defines a democracy, That is simply, plainly wrong. Words don't change to mean what you want them to mean. The essence of democracy, that which literally defines it, is voting. >Well, big companies have multiple owners, so one owner cannot do what he wants unless he has a majority. Also a company is subject to market forces, customers voting with their wallet. So really, an owner can only do what he wants for as long as (1) he can afford it and (2) his peers tolerate it. Your thinking is very muddy.

bad_user 10y ago
> The essence of democracy, that which literally defines it, is voting No dude, party members in the Eastern Europe's communists countries also voted. Our dictators called our stalinism a democracy. The essence of democracy is the rule of law and the individual freedoms of the citizens, which makes it possible for citizens to participate, the vote being a means to an end and not being possible without the rule of law and without those freedoms. And I'm not assuming too much here, but within this context, my opinion is that if you haven't lived under some form of dictatorship, you don't know what you're talking about.
- JackFr 10y ago
  I take your point about the fetishization of voting in the modern West. It is sometimes taken to silly extremes. And I agree that voting is not sufficient for democracy. But I still maintain voting is necessary. Democracy is government of the people. Late Latin from Greek dēmokratia, from dēmos ‘the people’ + -kratia ‘power, rule.’ I don't know of any mechanism other than voting for gleaning the popular will. > my opinion is that if you haven't lived under some form of dictatorship, you don't know what you're talking about. I cam't agree with that. Your experiences make you special, as do mine me. But if you really believe what you wrote, no further discourse from you can enlighten me or others until we too have lived under despotism.
  - TheCoelacanth 10y ago
    > I don't know of any mechanism other than voting for gleaning the popular will. Sortition (choosing public officials randomly) is one possibility.
- selimthegrim 10y ago
  Democratic centralism FTW!

systems 10y ago

i said this in another reply if you cant sell it, you dont own it citizens cannot sell their shares of citizenship, they are not like shareholders