14 ms·

Immigration is a lot like hiring. You want smart people with good cultural fit. Not in the sense that everyone must be the same culture, but the ideals and ethi

• alphonsegaston 9y ago
  No, really it's not. America has been changed for the better by many immigrants who had "ideals and ethics" quite counter to what dominated American society at the time. Many European Jewish immigrants, for example, fought for labor rights and racial equality based on their treatment in their home countries. This was much to the chagrin of anti-Semitic "titans of industry" like Ford and Disney, who are absurdly still held up as paragons of American culture. The dynamism of American society exists precisely to the extent that we don't let unthinking appeals to the validity of the status quo guide our behavior.
  • golergka 9y ago
    > Many European Jewish immigrants, for example, fought for labor rights Like Alisa Rosenbaum?
• systems 9y ago
  so for example in any given country, you think the people who voted for president x, and the people who protest against him, both share the same culture ... the same values is culture something that can change, do you think your culture, values .. changed over time, or could have anyway .. check immigrants for crime records, check them for what they did, or do .. not what they think (or what you think they may do, based on what you think of their ideas), because you know what immigrants spend few years 3 to 6 usually in any country before being granted citizenship, during that time if they break the law in any major way, killed someone for example, this in most countries will prevent them from being granted citizenship ... so you see there is a way to see if they fit, and that is ... if they respect the law ... and the law should be fair, and the law can be changed, this is only to preserve freedom of expression and thinking and i agree immigration is not like hiring, because a country is not like a company, companies are not democracies .. companies have owners, countries dont
  • DarkKomunalec 9y ago
    "a country is not like a company, companies are not democracies .. companies have owners, countries dont" I disagree - the citizens of a country are its owners.
    • systems 9y ago
      no they are not, this is exactly my point, you dont own your country ... you just have a vote ... which you dont always use , sometimes your vote will win, sometimes not what separate a citizen from a resident is ... in most place i know .. the right to vote and an owner does need a vote .. he may have some restrictions imposed by law, or how to use what he owns, but beyond that .. he can do whatever he want with what he owns, not permissions needed
      • DarkKomunalec 9y ago
        Says you. But shouldn't the citizens be the ones to decide what to do with their country, and whether they're 'owners' or not, whatever that means?
        • JoeAltmaier 9y ago
          Yet we have high-sounding words in law, about rights and pursuing happiness. Denying that to others is the highest hypocrisy, is it not?
          • DarkKomunalec 9y ago
            Hypocrisy would be forbidding immigration to others, while expecting other countries to allow it for yourself. I expect no such thing, and indeed most countries don't allow unlimited immigration. And the US is not the only place where one can pursue happiness.
            • JoeAltmaier 9y ago
• golergka 9y ago
  > This is the fizz buzz test with all the same problems What is your opinion on fizz buzz problems? I've found it to be a tremendous help in the early interviewing process.
  • phaus 9y ago
    Here's my issue with it. I've taken a few programming classes. I could easily write fizzbuzz as soon as I understood the syntax for loops. So, we're talking day 1 of programming class. I could write it in like 4-5 different languages right now. It would take some work, but I might even be able to figure out how to write it in assembly. I still haven't written an actual program beyond the simple exercises where you are trying to run a calculation and get a specific output from the command-line. I suppose it's good at filtering out people that don't even know the syntax of a programming language, but do such people apply to programming jobs frequently enough for fizzbuzz to be useful? Edit: Didn't intend to offend people. I just can't comprehend why a person would apply for a job when they don't know how to do it. I now get that it's a bozo-check, I'm just surprised there's s need for it. I hire in a similar industry and while we run into a lot of people that are obviously bad and or inexperienced, they usually at least know the basics.
    • jstanley 9y ago
      Passing fizzbuzz isn't meant to indicate that the person is a good programmer. Failing fizzbuzz is a quick way to indicate that the person is not a good programmer.
      • phaus 9y ago
        Do you really have people apply that don't even know the syntax for a single language?
        • jstanley 9y ago
          I don't work in hiring, but from what I've read online, it is unbelievably common.
• k_lander 9y ago
  perhaps the sims would be a better test
• stctgion 9y ago
  Comments like this make me lose faith in HN readers. These were human beings. This wasn't a job interview. Not caring for a human being on the grounds of IQ is a really disturbing thought.
  • pmoriarty 9y ago
    A lot of people here are probably above average in intelligence (or consider themselves so), so may have trouble relating to people who are discriminated against based on their perceived intelligence, though some are no doubt minorities and can relate on at least at some level. Many probably also believe that being more intelligent means you're superior and more deserving than someone who's less intelligent. There's also a lot of anti-immigrant, "defend the homeland from the foreign hordes" sentiment around the world these days. I'd wonder how these people would react to the idea of having even native-born people have to take a citizenship test that included some IQ test when they turned 18, and if the failed they'd lose their citizenship. I bet many elites would be ok with that because they'd expect themselves and their children to pass, but I'm not so sure about the rest. They'd probably feel they were entitled to citizenship just because they had a lucky birth.
    • douche 9y ago
      On the other hand, we're stuck with the dubs who were lucky enough to be born in this country, and there's more than enough of them already. We don't need to import more low-functioning people, rather the opposite. It's idiotic the way we gate the top end of people trying to immigrate here legally, but were opening the floodgates on the low end. If someone is talented enough to get an H1B visa, or graduate from a top university, those are the people I'd roll out the red carpet for, rather than shackling them in pseudo indentured servitude or kicking them back to their home countries when their student visas expire.
  • deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
• ihaveahadron 9y ago
  What makes a jigsaw puzzle any worse of a test than anything else. Genius
• DarkKomunalec 9y ago
  I think it's more like who to permanently allow into your home, rather than hiring. After all, you don't just work in your country, you live there too.
  • skybrian 9y ago
    That's a misleading metaphor. A country that includes 300 million people cannot be a safe place like a home, or even a workplace. Anything you might be afraid of is already here, somewhere.
    • DarkKomunalec 9y ago
      It may be there, but in what quantity? Please don't imply all countries are equally safe. And why should fear be the only cause to bar entry? Is that the standard you'd use for your home? I'd start with close friends and family, myself, then go from there.
      • ceejayoz 9y ago
        > Is that the standard you'd use for your home? One doesn't (and shouldn't) run a country like a house.
        • DarkKomunalec 9y ago
          Do not confuse a house with a home. After all, you have a homeland, not a houseland.
          • ceejayoz 9y ago
            I'm not interested in semantic gotcha games. You get to limit your house to friends and family. Have at it. You don't get to limit your country to that. Hell, you don't even get to limit your property to that, if you've got a sidewalk on it.
            • 9y ago
• sangnoir 9y ago
  > Not in the sense that everyone must be the same culture, but the ideals and ethics of the two cultures must be rooted in similar things. [Citation needed]. The cultures should only be compatible - not necessarily rooted in similar things. Japanese zen-buddhist shame culture is not rooted in similar things as America's typical protestant Christian guilt culture. To my knowledge Japanese immigrants did (and still do) integrate well. Humans are ridiculously adaptable, I would argue the reverse of your argument - that there is no culture on earth that precludes any immigrant from flourishing in modern, secular western countries. In fact, voluntary immigrants are preselected for willingness to adapt.
  • erichocean 9y ago
    > Humans are ridiculously adaptable [Citation needed].
  • wand3r 9y ago
    Compatible is a better word for what I meant. Thanks
• openasocket 9y ago
  I disagree. America has been and should continue to be a diverse melting pot, accepting peoples and ideals from all corners of the globe. We shouldn't try to weed out people based on something like intelligence or a vague notion of "cultural fit," as though some people should be held to a higher standard to live in this country based purely on an accident of birth. We should accept immigrants based on capacity. I know it sounds quaint and hokey, but I really believe in the words engraved at the foot of the statue of liberty: Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!