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How Applying Principles from Psychology Can Improve Dating Success
- reader5000 16y ago"I was once dating a girl whom I liked, but wasn’t crazy about, as she didn’t meet my predefined standards for excellence in a mate." Obviously this guy is a cool dude.
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- DeusExMachina 16y agoI don't get if your is irony or not, but I think that having high standards for the partner we want (especially for life) is a good thing. I don't think that this is something that has something to do with "being cool". Why should we settle when the world is full of girls that could match our preferences? When people start their own startup, they have high aims. Why should we aim low in our relationships?
- reader5000 16y agoThe article had good points (although I'm not sure on topic for HN) however using phrases like "predefined standards of excellence" in regards to people/dating sort of makes it sound like the last time you left your mom's basement was a couple months ago. Since the article writer is into psychology he might also like to research "psychopathology".
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- ellyagg 16y agoConsidering your love life with a technical and analytical bent in no way suggests a lack of feelings (psychopathology), and it will definitely improve your odds of being successful. It's a bit creepy to intimidate others into suboptimal life strategies by stigmatizing their attempts at self-improvement.
- narag 16y agoThe irony here is that the guy is criticizing how others fail to value external conventions while he can't see how he fails to do so in his writing.
- kenjackson 16y agoIt really depends on what your standards actually are and if those are truly what will make you happy. In college I remember a lot of girls had core requirements that were like: 6'4" and taller. six pack, seven-figure salary, nice clothes, nice smell, college degree, nice and monogamous, good in bed, good kisser, a bit of a bad boy. And I'd think, "if you could land this guy, there are clearly things about you that aren't apparent upon first meeting you." My next thought was, "prepare to spend your life being single"
- electromagnetic 16y agoNice and monogamous /= bad boy Six pack /= 7-figure salary/college degree These traits are typically opposites. Monogamy typically doesn't work with a bad boy. Six pack generally doesn't suit up with a 7-figure salary. The few people I've met that fit the six-pack and 7-figure salary are typically construction workers that have gone on to own their own business. These two rarely coincide for long since the 7-figure salary typically excludes any more physical work and requires sitting in a chair. For those not in the know, when you're consuming ~4000 calories a day and not gaining weight because of physical activity that when you stop being physical you generally don't stop eating those ~4000 calories until you gain ~20lbs and bury the 6 pack.
- mattchew 16y agoIt's not his standards, it's his weaselly way of talking about them. Here's what he said in plain English: "Even though I was dating her, she really wasn't good enough for me." Later he says "that doesn't mean she's not a great individual". Gag. If you really want to blog about how your ex wasn't good enough for you, just do it straight out and take the heat.
- zackattack 16y agoPeople sure do love the appearance of consistency. Your criticism is logically invalid: just because I think that Alan Kay is a great individual doesn't mean that he meets my personal "standards for excellence in a mate". However, your criticism is valid from a practical perspective, so I sincerely thank you.
- mattchew 16y agoWell, you're welcome. Saying something that sounds bad isn't the end of the world (good thing for me). Live and learn.
- electromagnetic 16y agoAgreed, basically he's saying "I'm only dating her till someone better comes along". You're a man, have the balls to dump a woman you don't want to be with don't be a douche and string her along just to get laid it's pathetic.
- mjsergey 16y agoNot everyone would agree with (seemingly) basing relationships on what criteria they fulfill, which would seem to reduce love to an I scratch your back, you scratch mine scenario. Often times love is seen as an ethical, selfless act, as well as--and even in spite of--one that fulfills happiness.
- quomopete 16y agoI don't think that this has something to do with "when people start their own startup." Hearing a guy talk about "preferred excellence in a mate" sounds to me like someone who would be better off working through one of those professional matchmakers you find in the in-flight magazine, that or a 5,000 dollar sex doll.
- tome 16y agoSometimes people write, for whatever reason, in a way that may make them sound like idiots, but that doesn't mean there isn't truth in what they say, and I thought this particular paragraph was very interesting.
- jules 16y agoAt least he's honest...
- datapimp 16y agoOP is learning from Cialdini. But he should really be learning from Mystery, and other pick up artists who have been field testing principles from Evolutionary Psychology for over a decade.
- philwelch 16y agoI think the OP's tactics would be great for meeting a long term marriage partner. PUA tactics are for pickups, and a lot of them are a bit too black-hattish, manipulative, and dishonest for serious adult relationships.
- potatolicious 16y agoNot only that, PUA tactics often involve just plain making shit up - which makes it a really, really poor tactic if you ever plan on seeing the girl again. I'm not so hot on OP's tone, but for people looking for relationships it seems a lot more productive than the "lying through your teeth while maintaining a veneer of confidence" that so much of the PUA community relies upon. There have been numerous posts about dating on HN (and reddit) over the past few days. I think all of it can be summed up as: "care, but don't care too much". All of the advice on OP's post can really be broken down to that axiom.
- zaidf 16y agoI think dependence on lying was more true few years ago. Since The Game came out, a lot has changed. Most popular methods rely a lot less on lying and routines and will readily admit they are crutches that you use until you no longer need it. which makes it a really, really poor tactic if you ever plan on seeing the girl again. Donno, I have multiple friends who have been/are in happy long-term relationships as a result of the community. These are some of the biggest nerds until they found the community. Sure, for a while a lot of the new entrants become super weird and awkward but when the dust settles, I think the community has helped many, many people! Having said that, in the last few years, there has been an influx of gurus claiming to know the secret. They are nothing more than snakeoil artists who don't know shit about getting with the other sex beyond ripping off desperate--but financially okay--men.
- pigbucket 16y agoBuying drinks is actually a BAD idea. This hypothesis was tested by Feynman (Surely You're Joking ...), naturally with success. I think I'd feel a little weird trying to psychologically hack my love life (if I had a love life). Also, the mathematical approach doesn't work: Let x denote beauty, -- y, manners well-bred, -- "z, Fortune, -- (this last is essential), -- "Let L stand for love" -- our philosopher said, -- "Then L is a function of x, y, and z, "Of the kind which is known as potential." "Now integrate L with respect to dt, "(t standing for time and persuasion); "Then, between proper limits, 'tis easy to see, "The definite integral Marriage must be: -- "(A very concise demonstration)." Said he -- "If the wandering course of the moon "By Algebra can be predicted, "The female affections must yield to it soon" -- -- But the lady ran off with a dashing dragoon, And left him amazed and afflicted. --from "The Mathematician in Love"
- gaius 16y agoAh, but it's more subtle than that. You see you have already been hacked. Why do boys automatically buy drinks for girls? It's almost as if we've been programmed to do so, and therefore do it regardless of it "working". But any bloke whose spent any time in pubs knows, if he thinks about it for a second, that you buy rounds of drinks with your mates. Buying drinks is a friendship signal, not a mating signal. And if you do it, that's where you'll end up.
- Tycho 16y agoSigh... I hate turning everything into a game. I guess it works for other people though
- orangecat 16y agoI hate turning everything into a game. Me too. And for some reason I'm still single...
- proexploit 16y agoAlthough we are naturally superficial, I think that looks actually have very little to do with getting the girl. How many times do you see guys with women that look a lot better than them? A lot in my area. Some of the most "popular" guys in high school and college wouldn't stand a chance in a modeling competition but they certainly were confident. I think the most important traits to develop are confidence, mystery (not being predictable) and humor. Take care of yourself and try to keep looking nice, but don't hone in on that aspect.
- adamdecaf 16y ago1) Buying people thing just to get them to like you doesn't actually work!!! 2) Be annoying and don't answer back, even when you know the other person is very punctual. 3) Actually pay attention and compliment the other person on what they like to do. 4) Make yourself look better (dress up for dates). 5) Be confident. Alright, I'm just gonna move along with my life... Really, I thought this was for important and interesting articles, not some stupid "pop culture" magazine forum.
- alttab 16y agoAlmost invariably, all of the painfully single "nerds" I know have such a thick bubble of pretension that they can't realize that they suck to be around. I've seen math used to model relationships on HN a couple of times, and even as an intellectual curiosity I believe it to be a complete waste of time. Using social dynamics and behavioral psychology as a method for avoiding social mistakes gets you way further than applying it as some sort of game, from any "guru" of any evo-psych, behavioral analyst, game-community leader or persuasion researcher/author.
- orangecat 16y agoAlmost invariably, all of the painfully single "nerds" I know have such a thick bubble of pretension that they can't realize that they suck to be around. No doubt that's true in many cases. But there's a sizable category of single males who constantly wind up in the friend zone with women because they (who am I kidding: we) fundamentally don't produce attraction. PUA techniques are designed to correct that; I can't do them at all, but they really work.
- Aaronontheweb 16y agoAm I the only person here who thinks that most of the comments on this thread are indicative of people grossly over-thinking dating? The only real pre-requisite for dating is that you like yourself; if you like yourself, then other people will (although not all people.) Everything else you'll have to learn experientially - everything from how to collect a phone number to how to tactfully handle delicate / awkward situations.
- paulnelligan 16y agoYou said what I was thinking. This idea that you have to manipulate women into liking you through psychology obviously means that your own natural charms aren't working. Having a good time, joking, laughing, and enjoying yourself is going to help you a lot more than focusing on the pitch of your voice - but that's just my perspective. In reality, these dating self-help books and the people who use them creep me out a bit. Mostly because I have a sister and many close female friends.
- gaius 16y agoYou're missing the point. It's about unlearning things you've been told which are wrong. Like the point about buying a girl a drink, it obviously doesn't "work", yet boys keep doing it anyway, because, umm, well, that's just what you do, isn't it? Sure there is a lot of bullshit around, but the basic principle of all this pick-artist business is, you're using a "routine" anyway, just without being consciously aware that you are, instead you should take conscious control of it.
- paulnelligan 16y agoFair enough - if you need it, then use it. I buy drinks for women, and get bought drinks by women, especially if I'm out on a date. I generally don't have any issues with it, and it never really affects my chances - maybe it's just the culture I live in ...
- cianestro 16y agohttp://www.odopod.com/work/donq-ladydata/ http://www.odopod.com/work/donq-ladydata/ for laughs.