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How much of ETH's price is propped up by speculation? I don't know of any stores that take ETH, while plenty take BTC. BTC also completely runs the economy of

How much of ETH's price is propped up by speculation? I don't know of any stores that take ETH, while plenty take BTC. BTC also completely runs the economy of the DarkNet. I believe all cryptocurrencies are somewhat propped up by speculation, but BTC is still the preferred currency for the vast majority of people using cryptocurrencies for the actual exchange of goods and services. That's how BTC derives its value (+ speculation, but very few people are willing to speculate at $1500 USD per coin). As for the other cryptocurrencies, I would say that a lot of their value comes from people wishing to get in on the next "BTC" for $20-$80/coin.

sanswork 9y ago
You can't judge any cryptocurrency by the number of stores that accept it because they all fail at that. Go to any random city and you can probably count the number of locations that take bitcoin on one hand and half of those probably haven't done a transaction in so long that they won't remember how to do it.
- charsifood 9y ago
  I'm judging the value of a cryptocurrency by how many tangible goods and services I can extract from it. That is the entire function of a currency. I can pay for my VPN and my cloud servers with BTC. I can meet up with people locally and sell BTC for cash [effortlessly]. I can't do that with any other cryptocurrency. I'm not at all judging the technical merits of one cryptocurrency versus another.
  - sanswork 9y ago
    >I can pay for my VPN and my cloud servers with BTC. Provided you use one of a limited selection of providers compared to using credit cards. >I can meet up with people locally and sell BTC for cash [effortlessly] Depending on where you are located. >I can't do that with any other cryptocurrency. You can do both of those things much more easily using traditional currencies. In both those cases you are getting a worse deal than just using normal cash for the services desired. That's why you can't judge any cryptocurrency for that because they are all universally shit at it.
    - charsifood 9y ago
      > Provided you use one of a limited selection of providers compared to using credit cards. Compared to the none of them that take ETH. > Depending on where you are located. Or irrespective of where you are located if you are trying to offload ETH because nobody wants it. > That's why you can't judge any cryptocurrency for that because they are all universally shit at it. There are varying degrees of shit and BTC is the only one that even comes close to being a real currency rather than a speculative one.
      - sanswork 9y ago
        They are all speculative. You can't possibly believe that the recent increase in Bitcoin price is due to a tripling of its usefulness over the past year right?
        charsifood 9y ago
        They're all speculative; only one of them is useful.
        sanswork 9y ago
        For extremely limited definitions of the term useful.
        iopq 9y ago
        If you're a millionaire in China, it's extremely useful, for example.
        sanswork 9y ago
        If you're a millionaire in China property in the west is more useful.
        lkbm 9y ago
        For an extremely limited amount of use. The definition of "useful" is something along the lines of "can be used". We don't have different definitions for "useful" that range from "can be used 10 ways" vs. "can be used 1000 ways". No one's arguing bitcoin has the same level of adoption as USD for facilitating trade. They're arguing that it has more than zero and that ETH has zero. Two comments up you argued that having fewer options inherently means you're getting a worse deal than someone with more options. Bitcoin is an extra payment option in n>0 situations. "n is small" is true, and a reasonable point when evaluating the usefulness of bitcoin. "n is small and therefore n is zero" is a little less reasonable argument, but seems to be what you're arguing.
patrickk 9y ago
> I don't know of any stores that take ETH, while plenty take BTC. BTC also completely runs the economy of the DarkNet. Bitcoin is "digital gold" while Ethereum is a bit like "digital oil". So the main value of Ethereum should (in theory) arise from decentralised apps and smart contracts. Therefore, if use cases like (for example) Bosch's proposed idea of using smart contracts to eliminate fraudulent odometer tampering[1] or Santander's experiments with allowing their customers to buy digital tokens from their bank account takes off[2], that's where the value will come from - not necessarily DarkNet stores or other transactions. [1] https://www.ethnews.com/bosch-using-blockchain-technology-to-stop-illegal-mileage-manipulation https://www.ethnews.com/bosch-using-blockchain-technology-to... [2] http://www.coindesk.com/santander-vies-become-first-bank-issue-digital-cash-blockchain/ http://www.coindesk.com/santander-vies-become-first-bank-iss...
bitcoinstudent 9y ago
Neither of those things are completely true. While bitcoin is accepted at some merchants, volume is pretty low. Several have removed it. People don't really use it to buy things, precisely because the network is stagnating and congested. The vast majority of Bitcoin's value derives from speculation, just like Ethereum. Also, Monero is also on equal terms with Bitcoin when it comes to dark net markets. Another crypto with an actual valuable distinguishing feature (true anonymity) has more of a use case than Bitcoin here.

sanswork 9y ago

You can't judge any cryptocurrency by the number of stores that accept it because they all fail at that. Go to any random city and you can probably count the number of locations that take bitcoin on one hand and half of those probably haven't done a transaction in so long that they won't remember how to do it.

charsifood 9y ago
I'm judging the value of a cryptocurrency by how many tangible goods and services I can extract from it. That is the entire function of a currency. I can pay for my VPN and my cloud servers with BTC. I can meet up with people locally and sell BTC for cash [effortlessly]. I can't do that with any other cryptocurrency. I'm not at all judging the technical merits of one cryptocurrency versus another.
- sanswork 9y ago
  >I can pay for my VPN and my cloud servers with BTC. Provided you use one of a limited selection of providers compared to using credit cards. >I can meet up with people locally and sell BTC for cash [effortlessly] Depending on where you are located. >I can't do that with any other cryptocurrency. You can do both of those things much more easily using traditional currencies. In both those cases you are getting a worse deal than just using normal cash for the services desired. That's why you can't judge any cryptocurrency for that because they are all universally shit at it.
  - charsifood 9y ago
    > Provided you use one of a limited selection of providers compared to using credit cards. Compared to the none of them that take ETH. > Depending on where you are located. Or irrespective of where you are located if you are trying to offload ETH because nobody wants it. > That's why you can't judge any cryptocurrency for that because they are all universally shit at it. There are varying degrees of shit and BTC is the only one that even comes close to being a real currency rather than a speculative one.
    - sanswork 9y ago
      They are all speculative. You can't possibly believe that the recent increase in Bitcoin price is due to a tripling of its usefulness over the past year right?
      - charsifood 9y ago
        They're all speculative; only one of them is useful.
        sanswork 9y ago
        For extremely limited definitions of the term useful.
        iopq 9y ago
        If you're a millionaire in China, it's extremely useful, for example.
        sanswork 9y ago
        If you're a millionaire in China property in the west is more useful.
        lkbm 9y ago
        For an extremely limited amount of use. The definition of "useful" is something along the lines of "can be used". We don't have different definitions for "useful" that range from "can be used 10 ways" vs. "can be used 1000 ways". No one's arguing bitcoin has the same level of adoption as USD for facilitating trade. They're arguing that it has more than zero and that ETH has zero. Two comments up you argued that having fewer options inherently means you're getting a worse deal than someone with more options. Bitcoin is an extra payment option in n>0 situations. "n is small" is true, and a reasonable point when evaluating the usefulness of bitcoin. "n is small and therefore n is zero" is a little less reasonable argument, but seems to be what you're arguing.

patrickk 9y ago

> I don't know of any stores that take ETH, while plenty take BTC. BTC also completely runs the economy of the DarkNet. Bitcoin is "digital gold" while Ethereum is a bit like "digital oil". So the main value of Ethereum should (in theory) arise from decentralised apps and smart contracts. Therefore, if use cases like (for example) Bosch's proposed idea of using smart contracts to eliminate fraudulent odometer tampering[1] or Santander's experiments with allowing their customers to buy digital tokens from their bank account takes off[2], that's where the value will come from - not necessarily DarkNet stores or other transactions. [1] https://www.ethnews.com/bosch-using-blockchain-technology-to-stop-illegal-mileage-manipulation https://www.ethnews.com/bosch-using-blockchain-technology-to... [2] http://www.coindesk.com/santander-vies-become-first-bank-issue-digital-cash-blockchain/ http://www.coindesk.com/santander-vies-become-first-bank-iss...

bitcoinstudent 9y ago

Neither of those things are completely true. While bitcoin is accepted at some merchants, volume is pretty low. Several have removed it. People don't really use it to buy things, precisely because the network is stagnating and congested. The vast majority of Bitcoin's value derives from speculation, just like Ethereum. Also, Monero is also on equal terms with Bitcoin when it comes to dark net markets. Another crypto with an actual valuable distinguishing feature (true anonymity) has more of a use case than Bitcoin here.