4 ms·

Sorry but what you are saying is since people are too stupid to understand the contract they signed and to do some math it is the companies fault? My wife and

Sorry but what you are saying is since people are too stupid to understand the contract they signed and to do some math it is the companies fault? My wife and I at one point were in the hole nearly 1m. The crash put my house way under and the job money fun time went away. It sucked. You know what we did. We canceled the cable TV, we stopped eating out. We watched every penny. I work jobs I hated, hated, hated. We got credit councling and got on a plan with them and stuck to it. We paid our debt. I am by no means saying that banckrucy should not be an option in some cases. Our medical systems is a mess and that is a huge cause of banckrucy. However let's be clear people signed those loans without understanding it and it is their fault. I knew the cost of the interest only loan I had. I got burned but it was a bet I entered after doing research and math, etc. When it did not work out I sucked it up and delt with it. I agree that some companies did some shady stuff, but really? You get something to good to be true and you don't question it? The consumer has to take some responsibility for their actions.

wonderwonder 9y ago
The companies are more than capable of doing the math as they are signatories on the same contract. They interest rate they charge on the loaned money is based on their own internal algorithm that determines the risk of default on a particular borrower. Risk is priced into the loan. I am glad you and your family were able to work your way out of the debt you found yourself and I commend you for it. Many others are not able too. Provided they did not get themselves into debt just to keep up with the Joneses' while living on credit cards, they should not be ashamed or made to feel stupid for taking advantage of a legal option that has been priced into their loan via their interest rate. You talk of doing the math and taking a bet on your loan. The lenders do the same math and take the same bet. They just don't apply any moral imperative to their actions. Life happens, and at the end of the day their is no shame in looking at the math and your situation and determining that the numbers don't add up and its time to reset.
- myrandomcomment 9y ago
  I agree but that is not the case for most of this. People spend to much and run up to much debt because they are trying to keep up with the Jones. My wife was property manager for a large company. One of the properties in Orange County, New Port Beach area, had the highest rate of late payments and evictions. This is a A+ complex and has some of the highest rents for the units in the area. Guess what, those people that were late came in to the office with their bags from Nordstrom that they just came from in their BMW or MB asking for extendtions because they did not have the cash (but still had the CC to run up shopping). We as a country over all have made it okay for people not to be responsible for their actions and it will be our downfall. I agree with having the bankruptcy laws but we need to make it harder to get a reset whenthe cause of the situation was your own stupidity. I personally know people (Not friends) that have gone through bankruptcy 2 times, doing the same stupid shit the 2nd time as the first and it does not look like anything has changed with the last.
  - xyzzyz 9y ago
    I personally know people (Not friends) that have gone through bankruptcy 2 times, doing the same stupid shit the 2nd time as the first and it does not look like anything has changed with the last. The companies that lent them money for the second time should have gotten a clue, shouldn't they? Isn't this precisely what credit reports are for? It is definitely stupid to live over one's means and then go bankrupt, but it is just as stupid to lend money to people that have proven themselves irresponsible in the past, and so whoever lends to them should also suffer the consequences.
    - massysett 9y ago
      Oh they had a clue all right. They were charging the appropriate risk premium. People with bankruptcies are getting credit--expensive credit.
    - cmdrfred 9y ago
      After seven years that data is removed from your credit report due to consumer protection laws. Its possible they had no idea, and even if they did its illegal for them to deny credit because of it if it was 7 years or more ago.
- DougBTX 9y ago
  An economic argument would be that a customer defaulting now will signal to future lenders that they are a risky customer, leading to a raise in rates for future loans. The moral framework which says that defaulting is bad is in some way codifying the economic argument, by categorising actions that will lead to future difficulties as "immoral".
- lukas099 9y ago
  >they should not be ashamed or made to feel stupid for taking advantage of a legal option that has been priced into their loan via their interest rate. This was well-said. Without the risk of default the loan would be worthless for the lender.
teekert 9y ago
Whole countries are in huge debt that affect people that were not even born when the debt was established because of US economic hitmen [0]. I feel that all these countries should default and the corporatocracy fof the US should be ashamed of itself. [0] http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/26593431-the-new-confessions-of-an-economic-hit-man http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/26593431-the-new-confessi...
unprepare 9y ago
>were in the hole nearly 1m >We canceled the cable TV, we stopped eating out cable is what 200/month max? 2400 /year? How the hell much were you eating out that changing your habits allowed you to pay off a million dollars worth of debt? You sound more financially irresponsible than people whose mortgages were underwater by orders of magnitude
- sctb 9y ago
  Please don't be so personally rude to other users. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - unprepare 9y ago
    The parent was disparaging millions of americans by calling them too stupid to read a contract and financially irresponsible, and i pointed out that his situation sounded more financially irresponsible than someone underwater on their mortgage. If they take offense to being called financially irresponsible im not sure how they justify calling millions of americans the very same thing. that said, fair enough, i was more discourteous than i needed to be in getting my message across, i apologize for that.

wonderwonder 9y ago

The companies are more than capable of doing the math as they are signatories on the same contract. They interest rate they charge on the loaned money is based on their own internal algorithm that determines the risk of default on a particular borrower. Risk is priced into the loan. I am glad you and your family were able to work your way out of the debt you found yourself and I commend you for it. Many others are not able too. Provided they did not get themselves into debt just to keep up with the Joneses' while living on credit cards, they should not be ashamed or made to feel stupid for taking advantage of a legal option that has been priced into their loan via their interest rate. You talk of doing the math and taking a bet on your loan. The lenders do the same math and take the same bet. They just don't apply any moral imperative to their actions. Life happens, and at the end of the day their is no shame in looking at the math and your situation and determining that the numbers don't add up and its time to reset.

myrandomcomment 9y ago
I agree but that is not the case for most of this. People spend to much and run up to much debt because they are trying to keep up with the Jones. My wife was property manager for a large company. One of the properties in Orange County, New Port Beach area, had the highest rate of late payments and evictions. This is a A+ complex and has some of the highest rents for the units in the area. Guess what, those people that were late came in to the office with their bags from Nordstrom that they just came from in their BMW or MB asking for extendtions because they did not have the cash (but still had the CC to run up shopping). We as a country over all have made it okay for people not to be responsible for their actions and it will be our downfall. I agree with having the bankruptcy laws but we need to make it harder to get a reset whenthe cause of the situation was your own stupidity. I personally know people (Not friends) that have gone through bankruptcy 2 times, doing the same stupid shit the 2nd time as the first and it does not look like anything has changed with the last.
- xyzzyz 9y ago
  I personally know people (Not friends) that have gone through bankruptcy 2 times, doing the same stupid shit the 2nd time as the first and it does not look like anything has changed with the last. The companies that lent them money for the second time should have gotten a clue, shouldn't they? Isn't this precisely what credit reports are for? It is definitely stupid to live over one's means and then go bankrupt, but it is just as stupid to lend money to people that have proven themselves irresponsible in the past, and so whoever lends to them should also suffer the consequences.
  - massysett 9y ago
    Oh they had a clue all right. They were charging the appropriate risk premium. People with bankruptcies are getting credit--expensive credit.
  - cmdrfred 9y ago
    After seven years that data is removed from your credit report due to consumer protection laws. Its possible they had no idea, and even if they did its illegal for them to deny credit because of it if it was 7 years or more ago.
DougBTX 9y ago
An economic argument would be that a customer defaulting now will signal to future lenders that they are a risky customer, leading to a raise in rates for future loans. The moral framework which says that defaulting is bad is in some way codifying the economic argument, by categorising actions that will lead to future difficulties as "immoral".
lukas099 9y ago
>they should not be ashamed or made to feel stupid for taking advantage of a legal option that has been priced into their loan via their interest rate. This was well-said. Without the risk of default the loan would be worthless for the lender.

teekert 9y ago

Whole countries are in huge debt that affect people that were not even born when the debt was established because of US economic hitmen [0]. I feel that all these countries should default and the corporatocracy fof the US should be ashamed of itself. [0] http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/26593431-the-new-confessions-of-an-economic-hit-man http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/26593431-the-new-confessi...

unprepare 9y ago

>were in the hole nearly 1m >We canceled the cable TV, we stopped eating out cable is what 200/month max? 2400 /year? How the hell much were you eating out that changing your habits allowed you to pay off a million dollars worth of debt? You sound more financially irresponsible than people whose mortgages were underwater by orders of magnitude

sctb 9y ago
Please don't be so personally rude to other users. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- unprepare 9y ago
  The parent was disparaging millions of americans by calling them too stupid to read a contract and financially irresponsible, and i pointed out that his situation sounded more financially irresponsible than someone underwater on their mortgage. If they take offense to being called financially irresponsible im not sure how they justify calling millions of americans the very same thing. that said, fair enough, i was more discourteous than i needed to be in getting my message across, i apologize for that.