4 ms·

I won't comment on Trump, but repeating the mantra that the Brexit vote was due to stupidity on the part of voters over and over again not only won't make it tr

I won't comment on Trump, but repeating the mantra that the Brexit vote was due to stupidity on the part of voters over and over again not only won't make it true, it didn't work to convince the leavers to vote remain. There is a very interesting failure of imagination of the remain campaign in assuming that their best interests were the same as other people's, and denigrating or dismissing other people's concerns as due to stupidity or racism. The Brexit vote result is a comeupance for this self-serving elite.

NTDF9 9y ago
>> There is a very interesting failure of imagination of the remain campaign in assuming that their best interests were the same as other people's, and denigrating or dismissing other people's concerns as due to stupidity or racism. The Brexit vote result is a comeupance for this self-serving elite. I'm not saying that they didn't vote with their best interest at heart. But best self-interest with incomplete information can lead to disasters. Let's say brexit causes some other country in EU to become the financial powerhouse of the region, means a lot of jobs get out of the UK, which means more strain on social services and lower value of investments already made by said voters, which means poorer retirement. The above could well be right or wrong. But do you really think the average citizen actually thought about all this? Or did they just charge out because they "felt" left out? Given a choice, most citizens' self interest dictates cheap housing, education and healthcare with lower taxes. Self-interest asks for wealth without working. Just voting it into law without understanding the repercussions is a recipe for disaster.
- Safety1stClyde 9y ago
  In a democratic system, the tactic of dismissing other people as stupid is not a successful one. I don't want to comment on Trump's campaign, but a similar thing certainly seems to have happened with the climate change debate.
  - NTDF9 9y ago
    You are assuming I'm calling other people stupid. I'm merely claiming that the bigger global powers at play simply don't matter to the average human as much as their immediate circumstances (job, family, income, healthcare)...and that's why they don't vote for external circumstances. All of the above (family, job, income, housing etc) need underlying structures. These underlying structures are complex and intertwined with one another. When the average person comes out and votes, "Why should I pay for other's health problems?"...it sounds fair at a local level. At a societal level, it's a major problem. Most voters are not going to vote at a societal level.
    - Safety1stClyde 9y ago
      > You are assuming I'm calling other people stupid. No, I have no idea about you beyond the comment above, I have not even read your post history or profile. I was expanding on the point I made to include climate change.
    - vixen99 9y ago
      Voters are rather more nuanced than you give them credit for.

NTDF9 9y ago

>> There is a very interesting failure of imagination of the remain campaign in assuming that their best interests were the same as other people's, and denigrating or dismissing other people's concerns as due to stupidity or racism. The Brexit vote result is a comeupance for this self-serving elite. I'm not saying that they didn't vote with their best interest at heart. But best self-interest with incomplete information can lead to disasters. Let's say brexit causes some other country in EU to become the financial powerhouse of the region, means a lot of jobs get out of the UK, which means more strain on social services and lower value of investments already made by said voters, which means poorer retirement. The above could well be right or wrong. But do you really think the average citizen actually thought about all this? Or did they just charge out because they "felt" left out? Given a choice, most citizens' self interest dictates cheap housing, education and healthcare with lower taxes. Self-interest asks for wealth without working. Just voting it into law without understanding the repercussions is a recipe for disaster.

Safety1stClyde 9y ago
In a democratic system, the tactic of dismissing other people as stupid is not a successful one. I don't want to comment on Trump's campaign, but a similar thing certainly seems to have happened with the climate change debate.
- NTDF9 9y ago
  You are assuming I'm calling other people stupid. I'm merely claiming that the bigger global powers at play simply don't matter to the average human as much as their immediate circumstances (job, family, income, healthcare)...and that's why they don't vote for external circumstances. All of the above (family, job, income, housing etc) need underlying structures. These underlying structures are complex and intertwined with one another. When the average person comes out and votes, "Why should I pay for other's health problems?"...it sounds fair at a local level. At a societal level, it's a major problem. Most voters are not going to vote at a societal level.
  - Safety1stClyde 9y ago
    > You are assuming I'm calling other people stupid. No, I have no idea about you beyond the comment above, I have not even read your post history or profile. I was expanding on the point I made to include climate change.
  - vixen99 9y ago
    Voters are rather more nuanced than you give them credit for.