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Yet Puerto Ricans don't live in a Marxist society, so I'm not sure how his ideas apply here.

by EpicEng 10y ago

ue_ 10y ago
Marx was describing capitalism in his critique of political economy, Capital. Puerto Ricans definitely live in capitalism. A Marxist society (or, Communist) does not have wage labour at all.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > Puerto Ricans definitely live in capitalism. Puerto Ricans definitely live in a mixed economy, not the system that Marx described as capitalism, but it arguably shares the salient features of capitalism that Marx was addressing in the excerpt under discussion.
  - ue_ 10y ago
    What is a mixed economy? The definition of capitalism I use is based on the capitalist mode of production, that is, how goods are made within a capitalist economy, viz. production to maximise exchange value over use value, the primacy of wage labour, private (and yes, this can include the state's) ownership of social means of production, and most social production is for the goal of capital accumulation. In my opinion this is enough to say that a particular society is 'capitalist', though like all words there are variety of nuances and exceptions and additions that can be attached. Capitalism in my view neither necessitates nor excludes government controls on production, social democratic policies, taxes, the state (except for defense of private property) etc. A good example of a capitalist (state capitalist) country is the Soviet Union.
anigbrowl 10y ago
Well maybe they should. I'm not a communist, but the idea that there is only one valid economic model that is true and best for all sizes and stages of society sounds just a little bit convenient for the people promoting said model. You don't feed a baby steak. That doesn't mean steak is bad, it means it's not what a baby needs or can use until its older.
dragonwriter 10y ago
What was cited was Marx's views on how things work in a capitalist society, not his ideal of how they should work in a Communist one, so the fact that PR isn't Marxist is irrelevant to it applicability.

Yet Puerto Ricans don't live in a Marxist society, so I'm not sure how his ideas apply here.

by EpicEng 10y ago

Yet Puerto Ricans don't live in a Marxist society, so I'm not sure how his ideas apply here.

ue_ 10y ago

Marx was describing capitalism in his critique of political economy, Capital. Puerto Ricans definitely live in capitalism. A Marxist society (or, Communist) does not have wage labour at all.

dragonwriter 10y ago
> Puerto Ricans definitely live in capitalism. Puerto Ricans definitely live in a mixed economy, not the system that Marx described as capitalism, but it arguably shares the salient features of capitalism that Marx was addressing in the excerpt under discussion.
- ue_ 10y ago
  What is a mixed economy? The definition of capitalism I use is based on the capitalist mode of production, that is, how goods are made within a capitalist economy, viz. production to maximise exchange value over use value, the primacy of wage labour, private (and yes, this can include the state's) ownership of social means of production, and most social production is for the goal of capital accumulation. In my opinion this is enough to say that a particular society is 'capitalist', though like all words there are variety of nuances and exceptions and additions that can be attached. Capitalism in my view neither necessitates nor excludes government controls on production, social democratic policies, taxes, the state (except for defense of private property) etc. A good example of a capitalist (state capitalist) country is the Soviet Union.

anigbrowl 10y ago

Well maybe they should. I'm not a communist, but the idea that there is only one valid economic model that is true and best for all sizes and stages of society sounds just a little bit convenient for the people promoting said model. You don't feed a baby steak. That doesn't mean steak is bad, it means it's not what a baby needs or can use until its older.

dragonwriter 10y ago

What was cited was Marx's views on how things work in a capitalist society, not his ideal of how they should work in a Communist one, so the fact that PR isn't Marxist is irrelevant to it applicability.