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If Levandowski downloaded 14,000 documents I'm sure Google believes he stole from them and is using those docs at Uber, whether it's true or not. He might be u

If Levandowski downloaded 14,000 documents I'm sure Google believes he stole from them and is using those docs at Uber, whether it's true or not. He might be using those docs from his personal laptop to help build Uber's product, or he might just been doing a build at home for Google in his last days there. I don't trust that Googles lawyers descriptions (or Ubers lawyers descriptions), so it will take until the full evidence is out before we can know for sure.

kbenson 10y ago
> or he might just been doing a build at home for Google in his last days there. If you look at the details of that allegation, that's not really a feasible assumption (depending on how much stock you put in the details presented). According to Google, he installed custom software to access the files, and the files where in a data store he had no normal access to. From the filing[1]: In December 2015, Mr. Levandowski specifically searched for and then installed specialized software onto his company-issued laptop in order to access the server that stores these particular files. Once Mr. Levandowski accessed this server, he downloaded the 14,000 files, representing approximately 9.7 GB of highly confidential data. Then he attached an external drive to the laptop for a period of eight hours. He installed a new operating system that would have the effect of reformatting his laptop, attempting to erase any forensic fingerprints that would show what he did with Waymo’s valuable LiDAR designs once they had been downloaded to his computer. After Mr. Levandowski wiped this laptop, he only used it for a few minutes, and then inexplicably never used it again. 1: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7dzPLynxaXuQjY3dkllZ2ZKb0k/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7dzPLynxaXuQjY3dkllZ2ZKb0k...
- jacquesm 10y ago
  I wonder if Google can pull that kind of detail up on just their employees or if they're capable of doing this for anybody they care enough about.
  - linkregister 10y ago
    In the expert witness testimony, they just pulled it from the laptop's hard drive. I'm guessing just some run-of-the-mill file carving software. Google Drive logs file downloads, so that's how they got those records. Plenty of enterprises have certificate-based access to their employee network, none of this seems particularly creepy on Google's part. Testimony: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3515476-Declaration-of-Gary-Brown-PUBLIC.html https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3515476-Declaration-...
- linkregister 10y ago
  That file is a document filed by Waymo. We should expect that the Waymo attorneys present their case in a manner that makes it appear that Uber and Levandowski are liable with 100% certainty. The expert witness report is much less cut and dry: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3515476-Declaration-of-Gary-Brown-PUBLIC.html https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3515476-Declaration-... I don't think the expert witness report necessarily demonstrates Levandowski intended to steal the Google/Waymo project files. The Goobuntu distro was installed, which necessitates a reformat from NTFS to ext4 or whatever filesystem it uses. It sure as hell looks like Levandowski meant to steal the files, especially with his copious 5th Amendment testimony refusals, but it's possible he didn't.
  - kbenson 10y ago
    Thanks for the testimony, that puts a lot of light to the specific charges. Interestingly, the access looks fairly benign without the knowledge that IP was stolen at some point (as it turned up later). With that knowledge, it's easy to see it as possibly construed to look benign. Who knows what the truth is. A work laptop that was rarely if ever used is the device in question. TortoiseSVN was installed to access the repo. If the laptop wasn't normally used, that's a fairly regular thing to do if you want to set up the laptop to get access legitimately. All the data was downloaded, but reading between the lines, that's just a SVN checkout, which is going to get everything in the repo by default unless you request a specific subdirectory. A few days later a UDB drive is attached for numerous hours. A few days after that, another operating system is installed, and the laptop is almost never used again. All of this can be explained away as benign, but it's also possible it was intended to look that way. This could just as easily be explained as someone trying to access thee data and obscure the fact as it could be someone trying to set up a work laptop they plan to use while away from the office for a few days when they haven't bothered for to set it up for years prior because they had no need. This would look a lot more damning if Google was asserting that Levandowski was not supposed to have access to the SVN, or had not needed any access to it prior to this point, but unless I'm missing it, they aren't saying that (although they do a good job of making it easy to assume that). That said, that he set up the company that would later become Otto prior to all this access (with the assurance it would not compete), and also noted to numerous people that he planned to start his own self driving car company prior to the above actions (both according to the original filing though), does cast them in a somewhat different light. That there is evidence of other people that left exporting specific documents from Drive days and/or hours prior to their departure does not look good.
- easilyBored 10y ago
  He installed a new operating system that would have the effect of reformatting his laptop, attempting to erase any forensic fingerprints that would show what he did with Waymo’s valuable LiDAR designs once they had been downloaded to his computer. After Mr. Levandowski wiped this laptop, he only used it for a few minutes, and then inexplicably never used it again To the next Lewandowski: "Damn, my laptop got stolen /lost it" Meanwhile hammertime and drop peaces in tens of different trash boxes. Suspicious, but no evidence to prove anything. Stuff happens.
  - matt4077 10y ago
    The evidence was in server-side logs.
    - easilyBored 10y ago
      Yeah but the laptop might be the nail in the coffin. This and that and your laptop has been tampered with to hide evidence? Guilty. Without the laptop he would have had one less thing against. Maybe I left the laptop unattended or whatever...

kbenson 10y ago

> or he might just been doing a build at home for Google in his last days there. If you look at the details of that allegation, that's not really a feasible assumption (depending on how much stock you put in the details presented). According to Google, he installed custom software to access the files, and the files where in a data store he had no normal access to. From the filing[1]: In December 2015, Mr. Levandowski specifically searched for and then installed specialized software onto his company-issued laptop in order to access the server that stores these particular files. Once Mr. Levandowski accessed this server, he downloaded the 14,000 files, representing approximately 9.7 GB of highly confidential data. Then he attached an external drive to the laptop for a period of eight hours. He installed a new operating system that would have the effect of reformatting his laptop, attempting to erase any forensic fingerprints that would show what he did with Waymo’s valuable LiDAR designs once they had been downloaded to his computer. After Mr. Levandowski wiped this laptop, he only used it for a few minutes, and then inexplicably never used it again. 1: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7dzPLynxaXuQjY3dkllZ2ZKb0k/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7dzPLynxaXuQjY3dkllZ2ZKb0k...

jacquesm 10y ago
I wonder if Google can pull that kind of detail up on just their employees or if they're capable of doing this for anybody they care enough about.
- linkregister 10y ago
  In the expert witness testimony, they just pulled it from the laptop's hard drive. I'm guessing just some run-of-the-mill file carving software. Google Drive logs file downloads, so that's how they got those records. Plenty of enterprises have certificate-based access to their employee network, none of this seems particularly creepy on Google's part. Testimony: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3515476-Declaration-of-Gary-Brown-PUBLIC.html https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3515476-Declaration-...
linkregister 10y ago
That file is a document filed by Waymo. We should expect that the Waymo attorneys present their case in a manner that makes it appear that Uber and Levandowski are liable with 100% certainty. The expert witness report is much less cut and dry: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3515476-Declaration-of-Gary-Brown-PUBLIC.html https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3515476-Declaration-... I don't think the expert witness report necessarily demonstrates Levandowski intended to steal the Google/Waymo project files. The Goobuntu distro was installed, which necessitates a reformat from NTFS to ext4 or whatever filesystem it uses. It sure as hell looks like Levandowski meant to steal the files, especially with his copious 5th Amendment testimony refusals, but it's possible he didn't.
- kbenson 10y ago
  Thanks for the testimony, that puts a lot of light to the specific charges. Interestingly, the access looks fairly benign without the knowledge that IP was stolen at some point (as it turned up later). With that knowledge, it's easy to see it as possibly construed to look benign. Who knows what the truth is. A work laptop that was rarely if ever used is the device in question. TortoiseSVN was installed to access the repo. If the laptop wasn't normally used, that's a fairly regular thing to do if you want to set up the laptop to get access legitimately. All the data was downloaded, but reading between the lines, that's just a SVN checkout, which is going to get everything in the repo by default unless you request a specific subdirectory. A few days later a UDB drive is attached for numerous hours. A few days after that, another operating system is installed, and the laptop is almost never used again. All of this can be explained away as benign, but it's also possible it was intended to look that way. This could just as easily be explained as someone trying to access thee data and obscure the fact as it could be someone trying to set up a work laptop they plan to use while away from the office for a few days when they haven't bothered for to set it up for years prior because they had no need. This would look a lot more damning if Google was asserting that Levandowski was not supposed to have access to the SVN, or had not needed any access to it prior to this point, but unless I'm missing it, they aren't saying that (although they do a good job of making it easy to assume that). That said, that he set up the company that would later become Otto prior to all this access (with the assurance it would not compete), and also noted to numerous people that he planned to start his own self driving car company prior to the above actions (both according to the original filing though), does cast them in a somewhat different light. That there is evidence of other people that left exporting specific documents from Drive days and/or hours prior to their departure does not look good.
easilyBored 10y ago
He installed a new operating system that would have the effect of reformatting his laptop, attempting to erase any forensic fingerprints that would show what he did with Waymo’s valuable LiDAR designs once they had been downloaded to his computer. After Mr. Levandowski wiped this laptop, he only used it for a few minutes, and then inexplicably never used it again To the next Lewandowski: "Damn, my laptop got stolen /lost it" Meanwhile hammertime and drop peaces in tens of different trash boxes. Suspicious, but no evidence to prove anything. Stuff happens.
- matt4077 10y ago
  The evidence was in server-side logs.
  - easilyBored 10y ago
    Yeah but the laptop might be the nail in the coffin. This and that and your laptop has been tampered with to hide evidence? Guilty. Without the laptop he would have had one less thing against. Maybe I left the laptop unattended or whatever...