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Not to sound disparaging, but could this basically be summed up as "Kotlin is the syntactic sugar version of Java"? I mean, ignoring functional stuff which is

Not to sound disparaging, but could this basically be summed up as "Kotlin is the syntactic sugar version of Java"? I mean, ignoring functional stuff which is in Java 8 but not on Android because Android is still(?) on Java 7, that's all I'm really seeing here.

brentwatson 9y ago
Android actually now has some Java 8 feature support out-of-the-box [0] though most are API 24+. After porting our code base to Kotlin we found it provides more benefits over Java than just being less typing / "syntactic sugar". To name a few: - First class functional support (streams feel clunky in comparison). - Extension functions [1]. - Nullable types (compile-time null checking). - Less verbose as types declarations are optional in many situations. - Great interop & tooling from JetBrains makes a slow transition from Java -> Kotlin pretty seamless. [0] https://developer.android.com/studio/preview/features/java8-support.html https://developer.android.com/studio/preview/features/java8-... [1] https://kotlinlang.org/docs/reference/extensions.html https://kotlinlang.org/docs/reference/extensions.html
- yincrash 9y ago
  Were the downsides manageable? Increase in APK size / build time?
bitmapbrother 9y ago
As of Android 7, the following Java 8 language features are supported: Default and static interface methods Lambda expressions Repeatable annotations Method References Type Annotations
pvg 9y ago
There's a bunch of stuff the article doesn't get into, specifically Kotlin's type system which is Java-like but not quite Java's.
- thehardsphere 9y ago
  Huh. Okay. I'll have to read more about that then.
relics443 9y ago
Having used Java for 7 years, and using Kotlin for the past year, I would say it's the syntactic sugar version of java in the way that Java is the syntactic sugar version of C++, which is the syntactic sugar version of C which is the syntactic sugar version of ASM, etc...
- thehardsphere 9y ago
  So what am I missing? Or rather, what is the article missing? (I knew nothing about Kotlin before this article) I mean, I wouldn't agree with the classification of any of those languages as the syntactic sugar of whatever. C is portable ASM, which is a big deal. C++ is object oriented C, which is a different paradigm and feels a lot more salty than C because of the increased complexity. Java was rather ambitious (safe to say overly so) and brought with it a lot of differences with C++ that were not just syntax (which is definitely sweeter). What does Kotlin give me besides less verbose syntax and some nice compile time null checking?

brentwatson 9y ago

Android actually now has some Java 8 feature support out-of-the-box [0] though most are API 24+. After porting our code base to Kotlin we found it provides more benefits over Java than just being less typing / "syntactic sugar". To name a few: - First class functional support (streams feel clunky in comparison). - Extension functions [1]. - Nullable types (compile-time null checking). - Less verbose as types declarations are optional in many situations. - Great interop & tooling from JetBrains makes a slow transition from Java -> Kotlin pretty seamless. [0] https://developer.android.com/studio/preview/features/java8-support.html https://developer.android.com/studio/preview/features/java8-... [1] https://kotlinlang.org/docs/reference/extensions.html https://kotlinlang.org/docs/reference/extensions.html

yincrash 9y ago
Were the downsides manageable? Increase in APK size / build time?

bitmapbrother 9y ago

As of Android 7, the following Java 8 language features are supported: Default and static interface methods Lambda expressions Repeatable annotations Method References Type Annotations

pvg 9y ago

There's a bunch of stuff the article doesn't get into, specifically Kotlin's type system which is Java-like but not quite Java's.

thehardsphere 9y ago
Huh. Okay. I'll have to read more about that then.

relics443 9y ago

Having used Java for 7 years, and using Kotlin for the past year, I would say it's the syntactic sugar version of java in the way that Java is the syntactic sugar version of C++, which is the syntactic sugar version of C which is the syntactic sugar version of ASM, etc...

thehardsphere 9y ago
So what am I missing? Or rather, what is the article missing? (I knew nothing about Kotlin before this article) I mean, I wouldn't agree with the classification of any of those languages as the syntactic sugar of whatever. C is portable ASM, which is a big deal. C++ is object oriented C, which is a different paradigm and feels a lot more salty than C because of the increased complexity. Java was rather ambitious (safe to say overly so) and brought with it a lot of differences with C++ that were not just syntax (which is definitely sweeter). What does Kotlin give me besides less verbose syntax and some nice compile time null checking?