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How much marketshare do you think that Javascript will lose once WebAssembly gets mainstream? Has it evolved so much that it's now a language you would pick ou

How much marketshare do you think that Javascript will lose once WebAssembly gets mainstream? Has it evolved so much that it's now a language you would pick out of free will? With ES6, I'm hearing that it's actually usable and kinda nice, but every time I use JS for something instead of Python, I get hit with things like the weird typing that you just can't change.

Hydraulix989 9y ago
"How much marketshare do you think that Javascript will lose once WebAssembly gets mainstream?" I'm no fortuneteller, but I suspect that people writing the most demanding client applications for web will be very happy when it does. Browser-desktop convergence wasn't meant to happen through JS, and after the proliferation of the hacks that we have today to get around inherent design flaws in the language, it really shows. "Has it evolved so much that it's now a language you would pick out of free will?" "Free will" is a very good way of putting it. I suspect some Node developers were ex-frontend devs that just didn't want to learn another language. Moreover, the realities of project management, human resource allocation, and fast iteration are the forcing function behind using Electron instead of building a real desktop app.
- voltagex_ 9y ago
  > are the forcing function behind using Electron instead of building a real desktop app. I have to work hard to not fall into this way of thinking most of the time. I am as frustrated as you with the proliferation of Electron apps. But a lot of the time it boils down to: Application X would not exist if Electron did not exist. Cross platform dev is hard. More programmers, no matter what language they use, is a positive thing. Lowering the barrier to entry via things like Chrome Dev Tools, Electron and related technologies is a good thing. After all, how many people are still using the first programming language they started with?
  - _pmf_ 9y ago
    > More programmers, no matter what language they use, is a positive thing. Lowering the barrier to entry via things like Chrome Dev Tools, Electron and related technologies is a good thing. Why? Are more plumbers also a good thing, even though this reduces the average wage of the plumber and the quality of plumbing?
    - dagw 9y ago
      Because programming is an insanely powerful tool that can make so many peoples jobs easier and more productive. The more people that can use that tool the better.
    - Hydraulix989 9y ago
      This sounds a lot like the taxi driver argument against Uber/Lyft to me.
  - Hydraulix989 9y ago
    Right, that's a bit more descriptive way of what I meant when I said "human resource allocation." > "After all, how many people are still using the first programming language they started with?" Is the answer to your rhetorical question here supposed to be "a lot"? Because anybody who has programmed a long enough time has had to switch languages to keep up with ever-evolving technology. You're right, a lot of people on HN who started coding around 2013 when the web/mobile bubble started inflating learned JS and haven't touched anything else. If you've been coding since the 1990s or even 2000s, JS was definitely not your first language (ECMAScript wasn't anywhere close to being capable of doing the things it is now up to even 2006), and so you're likely equipped with the necessary skill set to build a real desktop app. So even if you learned JS as your first language, it's not TOO unreasonable to be expected learn something else like Python, C#/.NET, or C++ that is a bit more suited for desktop app development. But, yes, when you have a market flooded with JS developers and bootcamp grads, THAT is the forcing function for using Electron because C++ developers are now VERY tough to hire. They're all doing the most hardcore infrastructure projects at the likes of Facebook, or they're working on bare-metal performance optimization at NVIDIA, or they're working on ML infrastructure for self-driving cars, or they're doing high frequency trading in New York. Your run-of-the-mill seed-stage startup just doesn't have the budget for someone who knows C++ really well because even the big companies struggle finding and hiring them. With things like pointers and DIY memory management, C++ programming is HARD and easy to shoot yourself in the foot by making simple mistakes that aren't even possible to make in higher-level languages like JS. Luckily, there's plenty of other languages out there for building real desktop apps that aren't JS or C++.

Hydraulix989 9y ago

"How much marketshare do you think that Javascript will lose once WebAssembly gets mainstream?" I'm no fortuneteller, but I suspect that people writing the most demanding client applications for web will be very happy when it does. Browser-desktop convergence wasn't meant to happen through JS, and after the proliferation of the hacks that we have today to get around inherent design flaws in the language, it really shows. "Has it evolved so much that it's now a language you would pick out of free will?" "Free will" is a very good way of putting it. I suspect some Node developers were ex-frontend devs that just didn't want to learn another language. Moreover, the realities of project management, human resource allocation, and fast iteration are the forcing function behind using Electron instead of building a real desktop app.

voltagex_ 9y ago
> are the forcing function behind using Electron instead of building a real desktop app. I have to work hard to not fall into this way of thinking most of the time. I am as frustrated as you with the proliferation of Electron apps. But a lot of the time it boils down to: Application X would not exist if Electron did not exist. Cross platform dev is hard. More programmers, no matter what language they use, is a positive thing. Lowering the barrier to entry via things like Chrome Dev Tools, Electron and related technologies is a good thing. After all, how many people are still using the first programming language they started with?
- _pmf_ 9y ago
  > More programmers, no matter what language they use, is a positive thing. Lowering the barrier to entry via things like Chrome Dev Tools, Electron and related technologies is a good thing. Why? Are more plumbers also a good thing, even though this reduces the average wage of the plumber and the quality of plumbing?
  - dagw 9y ago
    Because programming is an insanely powerful tool that can make so many peoples jobs easier and more productive. The more people that can use that tool the better.
  - Hydraulix989 9y ago
    This sounds a lot like the taxi driver argument against Uber/Lyft to me.
- Hydraulix989 9y ago
  Right, that's a bit more descriptive way of what I meant when I said "human resource allocation." > "After all, how many people are still using the first programming language they started with?" Is the answer to your rhetorical question here supposed to be "a lot"? Because anybody who has programmed a long enough time has had to switch languages to keep up with ever-evolving technology. You're right, a lot of people on HN who started coding around 2013 when the web/mobile bubble started inflating learned JS and haven't touched anything else. If you've been coding since the 1990s or even 2000s, JS was definitely not your first language (ECMAScript wasn't anywhere close to being capable of doing the things it is now up to even 2006), and so you're likely equipped with the necessary skill set to build a real desktop app. So even if you learned JS as your first language, it's not TOO unreasonable to be expected learn something else like Python, C#/.NET, or C++ that is a bit more suited for desktop app development. But, yes, when you have a market flooded with JS developers and bootcamp grads, THAT is the forcing function for using Electron because C++ developers are now VERY tough to hire. They're all doing the most hardcore infrastructure projects at the likes of Facebook, or they're working on bare-metal performance optimization at NVIDIA, or they're working on ML infrastructure for self-driving cars, or they're doing high frequency trading in New York. Your run-of-the-mill seed-stage startup just doesn't have the budget for someone who knows C++ really well because even the big companies struggle finding and hiring them. With things like pointers and DIY memory management, C++ programming is HARD and easy to shoot yourself in the foot by making simple mistakes that aren't even possible to make in higher-level languages like JS. Luckily, there's plenty of other languages out there for building real desktop apps that aren't JS or C++.