4 ms·

There's evidence that multivitamins are useless, and that they actually cause health problems [1]. As for OPs theory, it's strange to think of such a thing hap

There's evidence that multivitamins are useless, and that they actually cause health problems [1]. As for OPs theory, it's strange to think of such a thing happening during an obesity epidemic, but many people do seem to be lacking basic nutrients in their diet. I'm not sure how much we can trust our own guts when it comes to seeking out nutritious foods; the majority of people go for sugar and fats when they're hungry, instead of the fruits and vegetables that contain the nutrients they're lacking. It seems our stomachs are not looking out for our best interests. [1] https://hub.jhu.edu/2013/12/17/vitamins-might-be-harmful/ https://hub.jhu.edu/2013/12/17/vitamins-might-be-harmful/

sfeng 9y ago
> many people do seem to be lacking basic nutrients in their diet What's the evidence of that?
- TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
  Chromium, for example, is essential for sugar and fat metabolism[1], and most people ingest less than 60% of the minimum daily requirement (less than 50mcg)[1]. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9380836 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9380836
- tomsthumb 9y ago
  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22364157/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22364157/ Note that 'required' likely means "less than the RDA" and that RDAs are often set on the basis of "having less than this much will imminently lead to some sort of dysfunction" as opposed to "the amount that actually makes your body happy".
TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
What is a multivitamin other than a bunch of single nutrients in one package. We know that B12 needs to be supplemented in people who are deficient, and that medicos sometimes give B12 injections. We know that pregnant women who take folate supplements have babies with fewer neural-tube defects (spina bifid etc). We know that we need to put some B vitamins back in the flower after it's milled otherwise the psychiatric wards fill up. We know that people who ingest less than the recommended daily intake of Chromium (less than 50mcg per day) have more blood sugar disregulation[1]. So why not put these things together in one package, where and when it makes sense to do so. I'll admit that some multivitamins are badly formulated, and I actively discourage people from taking certain forms of nutrients. Eg. why does any manufacturer put iron oxide or magnesium oxide in their supplements? These things are poorly absorbed and have known negative side effects. 1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9380836 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9380836
- dTal 9y ago
  Because the absorption of vitamins depends strongly on the digestive context, including but not limited to the presence of food, fluids, fat, and other vitamins. Some vitamins simply can't be absorbed together. And there's a laundry list of other poorly understood interactions as well - did you know that caffeine inhibits iron absorption (among others)? You can't expect to just throw it all together in a big bucket and expect to be healthy (something Soylent seems to utterly disregard). You need a balanced and varied diet. You just do. There's no compensating. And if you have one - why bother with the multivitamin? (Obviously specific supplementation where required is good and useful. I object only to the "mix it all together" approach as both unproductive and an attempt to treat a problem in the wrong place.) https://www.consumerlab.com/answers/Which+vitamins+and+minerals+should+be+taken+together+or+separately/how-to-take-vitamins/ https://www.consumerlab.com/answers/Which+vitamins+and+miner...
  - TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
    I'm a bit too busy to reply at length, so please excuse the brevity. > did you know that caffeine inhibits iron absorption (among others) Yes, I'm aware of that. > And if you have one See your fist point. Caffeine, and other stressors increase demand, either by reducing absorption or increasing elimination. Some people have genetic weaknesses, or lifestyle factors, that cause them to be prone to needing more of certain nutrients. To be fair, I generally agree with what you're saying. Throwing it all in a big bucket and hoping for the best isn't very good clinical advice. There are, however, some good nutritional supplements that have synergistic formulations. Full disclosure: I studied nutrition and have qualifications recognised in Australia.
xherberta 9y ago
>> I'm not sure how much we can trust our own guts when it comes to seeking out nutritious foods; Right. Our appetite is adapted for pre-industrial times, when craving sweet berries while they are in season would be a good thing. We're not equipped to handle constant availability of sugared and MSG-laden processed foods that are actually designed to defeat natural satiety mechanisms. I would be cautious of demonizing fats; unprocessed fats haven't been shown to do much harm. In recent years, even Harvard Med School has backed off of low-fat recommendations, instead saying trans-fats ought to be avoided. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/fats-and-cholesterol/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you... There's one way in which our appetites do point in the right direction: veggies are tastier and more appetizing when paired with butter or sauce, which also make it possible to absorb fat-soluble vitamins from the veggies.

sfeng 9y ago

> many people do seem to be lacking basic nutrients in their diet What's the evidence of that?

TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
Chromium, for example, is essential for sugar and fat metabolism[1], and most people ingest less than 60% of the minimum daily requirement (less than 50mcg)[1]. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9380836 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9380836
tomsthumb 9y ago
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22364157/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22364157/ Note that 'required' likely means "less than the RDA" and that RDAs are often set on the basis of "having less than this much will imminently lead to some sort of dysfunction" as opposed to "the amount that actually makes your body happy".

TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago

What is a multivitamin other than a bunch of single nutrients in one package. We know that B12 needs to be supplemented in people who are deficient, and that medicos sometimes give B12 injections. We know that pregnant women who take folate supplements have babies with fewer neural-tube defects (spina bifid etc). We know that we need to put some B vitamins back in the flower after it's milled otherwise the psychiatric wards fill up. We know that people who ingest less than the recommended daily intake of Chromium (less than 50mcg per day) have more blood sugar disregulation[1]. So why not put these things together in one package, where and when it makes sense to do so. I'll admit that some multivitamins are badly formulated, and I actively discourage people from taking certain forms of nutrients. Eg. why does any manufacturer put iron oxide or magnesium oxide in their supplements? These things are poorly absorbed and have known negative side effects. 1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9380836 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9380836

dTal 9y ago
Because the absorption of vitamins depends strongly on the digestive context, including but not limited to the presence of food, fluids, fat, and other vitamins. Some vitamins simply can't be absorbed together. And there's a laundry list of other poorly understood interactions as well - did you know that caffeine inhibits iron absorption (among others)? You can't expect to just throw it all together in a big bucket and expect to be healthy (something Soylent seems to utterly disregard). You need a balanced and varied diet. You just do. There's no compensating. And if you have one - why bother with the multivitamin? (Obviously specific supplementation where required is good and useful. I object only to the "mix it all together" approach as both unproductive and an attempt to treat a problem in the wrong place.) https://www.consumerlab.com/answers/Which+vitamins+and+minerals+should+be+taken+together+or+separately/how-to-take-vitamins/ https://www.consumerlab.com/answers/Which+vitamins+and+miner...
- TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
  I'm a bit too busy to reply at length, so please excuse the brevity. > did you know that caffeine inhibits iron absorption (among others) Yes, I'm aware of that. > And if you have one See your fist point. Caffeine, and other stressors increase demand, either by reducing absorption or increasing elimination. Some people have genetic weaknesses, or lifestyle factors, that cause them to be prone to needing more of certain nutrients. To be fair, I generally agree with what you're saying. Throwing it all in a big bucket and hoping for the best isn't very good clinical advice. There are, however, some good nutritional supplements that have synergistic formulations. Full disclosure: I studied nutrition and have qualifications recognised in Australia.

xherberta 9y ago

>> I'm not sure how much we can trust our own guts when it comes to seeking out nutritious foods; Right. Our appetite is adapted for pre-industrial times, when craving sweet berries while they are in season would be a good thing. We're not equipped to handle constant availability of sugared and MSG-laden processed foods that are actually designed to defeat natural satiety mechanisms. I would be cautious of demonizing fats; unprocessed fats haven't been shown to do much harm. In recent years, even Harvard Med School has backed off of low-fat recommendations, instead saying trans-fats ought to be avoided. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/fats-and-cholesterol/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you... There's one way in which our appetites do point in the right direction: veggies are tastier and more appetizing when paired with butter or sauce, which also make it possible to absorb fat-soluble vitamins from the veggies.