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Apparently, their lawyers forgot about this small lawsuit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St

Apparently, their lawyers forgot about this small lawsuit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor....

criddell 9y ago
That was 20 years ago. Microsoft's market position is different and there's a different DOJ. I think they're safe from the government. The market, though, may say otherwise. I would bet Windows 10 S is a flop in the US.
- steventhedev 9y ago
  They will likely get pushback from the EU, where they were slapped significantly harder back then as well. And it will be a "great success" with near 100% conversion rate because the upgrade will be forced on everyone.
  - Arizhel 9y ago
    >They will likely get pushback from the EU, where they were slapped significantly harder back then as well. No, they won't. There's 3 different versions of Windows 10 now: Home, S, and Pro (and Enterprise for big corps). People who don't like the limitations of S are free to buy one of the other two versions, and they'll probably even an easy way to "upgrade" to Pro for $$$. Over in Europe, if that's not good enough, they'll just eliminate S and stick with the other two versions, and let only Americans get suckered by the S version.
    - scholia 9y ago
      > let only Americans get suckered by the S version. As in, "suckered into getting a version of Windows 10 Pro for $50"? The upgrade option is already there in 10S, and it only takes a couple of seconds to authorize it.
zbuttram 9y ago
If that applied to this situation then Apple would be in trouble here with iOS too. You can run any browsers available in the store, but can't change the default. At least Apple lets you change your search engine, but they also don't own one.
trueSlav 9y ago
Or this little problem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Corp_v_Commission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Corp_v_Commission
belltaco 9y ago
This a new OS alike ChromeOS. The monopoly rules don't apply because the previous monopoly stemmed from everyone having to run Win32 apps. This OS can't even run Win32 apps, but only sandboxed apps(to protect against malware). Do iOS or ChromeOS even support installing a different browser without jailbreaking? How does a new OS with 0% share fall afoul of anti-trust laws? Is Microsoft prohibited forever from making something like iOS or ChromeOS while their competitors do whatever lockdown they want with their platforms? What's IE's and Bing's marketshare anyway? Is it 98% like Windows was in that case you're referring to?
- makomk 9y ago
  As I understand it, this OS can run Win32 apps - but they have to be packaged for and bought from the Windows Store, with Microsoft taking a cut. See for example https://arstechnica.co.uk/information-technology/2017/05/windows-10-s-details/ https://arstechnica.co.uk/information-technology/2017/05/win... Microsoft created a new infrastructure so that Win32 apps could be packaged for the Store just to make this possible.
- haswell 9y ago
  > Do iOS or ChromeOS even support installing a different browser without jailbreaking? How does a new OS with 0% share fall afoul of anti-trust laws? I can't speak for Chrome OS, but yes, you can install other browsers on iOS (Chrome, for example). It's required to use WebKit behind the scenes, but it's still the Chrome browser experience.
rocqua 9y ago
I'm not sure, it's been a while since I used my chromebook, but I think chromebooks had similar limitations. I could see microsoft looking to argue 'Google did it with chromebooks, why can't we do it with our specialized laptops'. I think that these days, people are more worried about google using its monopoly for anti-competitive practice than they are worried about Microsoft. I know I'm more worried about google in this regard. I still hope they're going to get slapped for this though, because it quite clearly is anti-competitive behaviour.
YCode 9y ago
IANAL but Microsoft's obligations under that expired and I'm not sure if those arguments even hold up anymore or not. Windows isn't what it once was and for example downloading a browser is no longer a burden, it takes all of ten seconds these days. Also they are only limiting your default browser/search. It was mildly entertaining to read this line in that wiki page: > Industry pundit Robert X. Cringely believed a breakup was not possible, and that "now the only way Microsoft can die is by suicide." Ironically as far as browsers are concerned IE6-~IE9 was a fair attempt at suicide.
- thomasz 9y ago
  IE6 was really, really good when it was released.
  - YCode 9y ago
    That's a fair point, I guess it just outlived its set of standards.
Arizhel 9y ago
No, they haven't forgotten. They know full well that there's absolutely zero possibility of them getting in trouble with the DOJ under Sessions, no matter what they do.

Apparently, their lawyers forgot about this small lawsuit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor....

criddell 9y ago

That was 20 years ago. Microsoft's market position is different and there's a different DOJ. I think they're safe from the government. The market, though, may say otherwise. I would bet Windows 10 S is a flop in the US.

steventhedev 9y ago
They will likely get pushback from the EU, where they were slapped significantly harder back then as well. And it will be a "great success" with near 100% conversion rate because the upgrade will be forced on everyone.
- Arizhel 9y ago
  >They will likely get pushback from the EU, where they were slapped significantly harder back then as well. No, they won't. There's 3 different versions of Windows 10 now: Home, S, and Pro (and Enterprise for big corps). People who don't like the limitations of S are free to buy one of the other two versions, and they'll probably even an easy way to "upgrade" to Pro for $$$. Over in Europe, if that's not good enough, they'll just eliminate S and stick with the other two versions, and let only Americans get suckered by the S version.
  - scholia 9y ago
    > let only Americans get suckered by the S version. As in, "suckered into getting a version of Windows 10 Pro for $50"? The upgrade option is already there in 10S, and it only takes a couple of seconds to authorize it.

zbuttram 9y ago

If that applied to this situation then Apple would be in trouble here with iOS too. You can run any browsers available in the store, but can't change the default. At least Apple lets you change your search engine, but they also don't own one.

trueSlav 9y ago

Or this little problem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Corp_v_Commission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Corp_v_Commission

belltaco 9y ago

This a new OS alike ChromeOS. The monopoly rules don't apply because the previous monopoly stemmed from everyone having to run Win32 apps. This OS can't even run Win32 apps, but only sandboxed apps(to protect against malware). Do iOS or ChromeOS even support installing a different browser without jailbreaking? How does a new OS with 0% share fall afoul of anti-trust laws? Is Microsoft prohibited forever from making something like iOS or ChromeOS while their competitors do whatever lockdown they want with their platforms? What's IE's and Bing's marketshare anyway? Is it 98% like Windows was in that case you're referring to?

makomk 9y ago
As I understand it, this OS can run Win32 apps - but they have to be packaged for and bought from the Windows Store, with Microsoft taking a cut. See for example https://arstechnica.co.uk/information-technology/2017/05/windows-10-s-details/ https://arstechnica.co.uk/information-technology/2017/05/win... Microsoft created a new infrastructure so that Win32 apps could be packaged for the Store just to make this possible.
haswell 9y ago
> Do iOS or ChromeOS even support installing a different browser without jailbreaking? How does a new OS with 0% share fall afoul of anti-trust laws? I can't speak for Chrome OS, but yes, you can install other browsers on iOS (Chrome, for example). It's required to use WebKit behind the scenes, but it's still the Chrome browser experience.

rocqua 9y ago

I'm not sure, it's been a while since I used my chromebook, but I think chromebooks had similar limitations. I could see microsoft looking to argue 'Google did it with chromebooks, why can't we do it with our specialized laptops'. I think that these days, people are more worried about google using its monopoly for anti-competitive practice than they are worried about Microsoft. I know I'm more worried about google in this regard. I still hope they're going to get slapped for this though, because it quite clearly is anti-competitive behaviour.

YCode 9y ago

IANAL but Microsoft's obligations under that expired and I'm not sure if those arguments even hold up anymore or not. Windows isn't what it once was and for example downloading a browser is no longer a burden, it takes all of ten seconds these days. Also they are only limiting your default browser/search. It was mildly entertaining to read this line in that wiki page: > Industry pundit Robert X. Cringely believed a breakup was not possible, and that "now the only way Microsoft can die is by suicide." Ironically as far as browsers are concerned IE6-~IE9 was a fair attempt at suicide.

thomasz 9y ago
IE6 was really, really good when it was released.
- YCode 9y ago
  That's a fair point, I guess it just outlived its set of standards.

Arizhel 9y ago

No, they haven't forgotten. They know full well that there's absolutely zero possibility of them getting in trouble with the DOJ under Sessions, no matter what they do.