4 ms·

Morally it's on those who give out loans to make sure that they can be repaid. It's wrong that Greece took these huge loans as well, but also it's wrong to sug

Morally it's on those who give out loans to make sure that they can be repaid. It's wrong that Greece took these huge loans as well, but also it's wrong to suggest that they have to pay them back. Everyone has the option to default when they are unable to pay and this was clearly the situation for Greece (and probably Spain and Italy, maybe even UK soon enough).

_pmf_ 10y ago
Exactly. The (German) banks gambled on a bail out; I would not even call it a gamble, since the could be dead sure Schäuble would be standing at attention with the suitcases at the first sign of trouble.
pvg 10y ago
Morally it's on those who give out loans to make sure that they can be repaid. Maybe when dealing with an unsophisticated or under-informed borrower which the sovereign states in question are not.
- andy_ppp 10y ago
  And you are proved wrong by the fact Greece's government clearly was (still is?) "an unsophisticated or under-informed borrower". I mean the outcome of this borrowing speaks for itself. When I take out a loan a bank usually asks for collateral but these loans to Greece are unsecured and not worth paying back. The banking system should have been left to fail but instead we live in this world where governments bailed them out. Capitalism for the poor and Socialism for the rich.
  - pvg 10y ago
    No, the fact someone takes out loans they can't repay doesn't 'prove' they don't understand the terms of the loan. I don't think any of the major actors in this look particularly great but it's not like the Greek government found a giant bag of money on their doorstep one day and nobody told them it came with terms.
    - RobertoG 10y ago
      So, I can lend money without worry and it always will be repaid? And not only that, I will be morally right. What amazing times we live.
      - pvg 10y ago
        I'm afraid I don't follow this trenchant rejoinder.
    - pm90 10y ago
      Wait...what? The Greek govt. that took out the loans was incompetent, sure. But so were the lenders. Making a loan is taking a risk for both the lender and the receiver of the loan. It is in both of their interest to ensure that the loan will be repaid.
dragandj 10y ago
And they ARE making sure the debt is going to be repaid.
- andy_ppp 10y ago
  Nope, they will almost certainly default on a large proportion of it.
  - dragandj 10y ago
    That remains to be seen. Until now, it was quite the opposite.
lmm 10y ago
Disagree. Default is something we allow out of grace, it shouldn't be treated as something you're entitled to.

_pmf_ 10y ago

Exactly. The (German) banks gambled on a bail out; I would not even call it a gamble, since the could be dead sure Schäuble would be standing at attention with the suitcases at the first sign of trouble.

pvg 10y ago

Morally it's on those who give out loans to make sure that they can be repaid. Maybe when dealing with an unsophisticated or under-informed borrower which the sovereign states in question are not.

andy_ppp 10y ago
And you are proved wrong by the fact Greece's government clearly was (still is?) "an unsophisticated or under-informed borrower". I mean the outcome of this borrowing speaks for itself. When I take out a loan a bank usually asks for collateral but these loans to Greece are unsecured and not worth paying back. The banking system should have been left to fail but instead we live in this world where governments bailed them out. Capitalism for the poor and Socialism for the rich.
- pvg 10y ago
  No, the fact someone takes out loans they can't repay doesn't 'prove' they don't understand the terms of the loan. I don't think any of the major actors in this look particularly great but it's not like the Greek government found a giant bag of money on their doorstep one day and nobody told them it came with terms.
  - RobertoG 10y ago
    So, I can lend money without worry and it always will be repaid? And not only that, I will be morally right. What amazing times we live.
    - pvg 10y ago
      I'm afraid I don't follow this trenchant rejoinder.
  - pm90 10y ago
    Wait...what? The Greek govt. that took out the loans was incompetent, sure. But so were the lenders. Making a loan is taking a risk for both the lender and the receiver of the loan. It is in both of their interest to ensure that the loan will be repaid.

dragandj 10y ago

And they ARE making sure the debt is going to be repaid.

andy_ppp 10y ago
Nope, they will almost certainly default on a large proportion of it.
- dragandj 10y ago
  That remains to be seen. Until now, it was quite the opposite.

lmm 10y ago

Disagree. Default is something we allow out of grace, it shouldn't be treated as something you're entitled to.