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I live in an apartment, in a Megacity[0], and none of my friends have cars[1]. I see no reason to suspect that city life diminishes interest in nature. If anyt

I live in an apartment, in a Megacity[0], and none of my friends have cars[1]. I see no reason to suspect that city life diminishes interest in nature. If anything, it's more of an experience because it's different. Come summer, my Facebook feed is filled with nature, and I've personally crossed the Alps on bicycle, usually camping the forests at night. Upkeep of a few roads isn't actually that expensive, and to some degree costs are proportional to use. Take a look at a map of Australia to see many roads that may only see a few cars per week. Even if a National Park were only accessible by gravel road, I'd argue it'd enhance the experience. With regards to cars, I get the sense that the most realistic future is no longer mass-transit only, but includes self-driving electric car-sharing. That allows people to continue enjoying the benefits of individual cars (privacy, carrying stuff, direct point-to-point, use of existing infrastructure worth billions) while still enabling the kind of transformation previously attributed to mass transit. For example, autonomous driving and car-sharing reduces the need for parking spaces and allows parking spaces to move to less-desirable areas, freeing up 1/3 of your typical city street. [0]: Using a rather technical definition of ≥1 Million inhabitants [1]: Yes, I have friends.

jpetso 10y ago
I'm having a hard time seeing autonomous vehicles significantly undercutting the price of existing rental cars, which is definitely something that keeps me from getting out of town on a regular basis. Sure, renting for a long weekend is still significantly cheaper than actually owning a car, but compared to other costs (taking a walk to the closest inner-city park, cycling to a larger one, or just having dinner or board games with friends) it's actually a pretty high threshold. What I am looking forward to is the night heating feature that allow electric cars to function as a makeshift "hotel room" for overnight accommodation. Once I have access to that via carsharing, that should lower the cost of a weekend trip enough to do it on a regular basis, with no camping gear required.
- brewdad 10y ago
  Alternatively, I would like to see some sort of workable car-sharing solution that would allow me to head out to the wilderness and hike for a few days without having to pay rental fees for the time my car sits unused at the trailhead. I only need the car for 8 hours or so (4 hour drive there and back) but have to pay for 96 hours of use.
  - jpetso 10y ago
    Yeah, that should be much more feasible once the car can drive back to a more populated area for rental use there, until it takes off to pick you up from the trailhead again. I like this line of thinking as well! Higher mileage but also a higher degree of utilization, hopefully leading to less cars being needed overall.
cr0sh 10y ago
> With regards to cars, I get the sense that the most realistic future is no longer mass-transit only, but includes self-driving electric car-sharing. I see this as likely too, but I also can see the downsides to it, because people suck. Just think of how mass transit looks like in your city, and how people treat rental cars, rented housing, etc - and apply that to shared vehicles. Though to be honest, we could make a better comparison today to things like Zipcar; I've never used one, so I don't know how often - if at all - one climbs into a car only to find it beaten to hell and back with vomit in the seats? Then again, such services aren't ubiquitous in all cities, so fewer people use them, and they might be more expensive so that those with a worse sense in using other's property are less likely to use the service? I just know that with rental cars ("drive it like you rented it") and rental properties - it's hit or miss whether the renter(s) are going to be careful with the property and upkeep of it, or if they are going to utterly destroy it (usually, it's probably somewhere in-between, tending toward taking care of it). You'll always have those outliers I guess. For now, though, I am keeping my vehicles, and paying the price. For one, I can't easily rent what I own (both vehicles are four-wheel drive and designed for off-roading), and one of those vehicles is a fairly rare machine (only about 5000 were sold in the United States). There are times, though, that I have been thankful I could rent a vehicle or take a cab or similar; sometimes you have no choice, or it's the better thing to do for the purpose at hand. In the future, with self-driving shared vehicles, this will be welcome for many purposes - but there will be downsides (likely, the first person to get the "destroyed vehicle" would decline it with a reason and it would be sent back to a depot for refurbishment).

jpetso 10y ago

I'm having a hard time seeing autonomous vehicles significantly undercutting the price of existing rental cars, which is definitely something that keeps me from getting out of town on a regular basis. Sure, renting for a long weekend is still significantly cheaper than actually owning a car, but compared to other costs (taking a walk to the closest inner-city park, cycling to a larger one, or just having dinner or board games with friends) it's actually a pretty high threshold. What I am looking forward to is the night heating feature that allow electric cars to function as a makeshift "hotel room" for overnight accommodation. Once I have access to that via carsharing, that should lower the cost of a weekend trip enough to do it on a regular basis, with no camping gear required.

brewdad 10y ago
Alternatively, I would like to see some sort of workable car-sharing solution that would allow me to head out to the wilderness and hike for a few days without having to pay rental fees for the time my car sits unused at the trailhead. I only need the car for 8 hours or so (4 hour drive there and back) but have to pay for 96 hours of use.
- jpetso 10y ago
  Yeah, that should be much more feasible once the car can drive back to a more populated area for rental use there, until it takes off to pick you up from the trailhead again. I like this line of thinking as well! Higher mileage but also a higher degree of utilization, hopefully leading to less cars being needed overall.

cr0sh 10y ago

> With regards to cars, I get the sense that the most realistic future is no longer mass-transit only, but includes self-driving electric car-sharing. I see this as likely too, but I also can see the downsides to it, because people suck. Just think of how mass transit looks like in your city, and how people treat rental cars, rented housing, etc - and apply that to shared vehicles. Though to be honest, we could make a better comparison today to things like Zipcar; I've never used one, so I don't know how often - if at all - one climbs into a car only to find it beaten to hell and back with vomit in the seats? Then again, such services aren't ubiquitous in all cities, so fewer people use them, and they might be more expensive so that those with a worse sense in using other's property are less likely to use the service? I just know that with rental cars ("drive it like you rented it") and rental properties - it's hit or miss whether the renter(s) are going to be careful with the property and upkeep of it, or if they are going to utterly destroy it (usually, it's probably somewhere in-between, tending toward taking care of it). You'll always have those outliers I guess. For now, though, I am keeping my vehicles, and paying the price. For one, I can't easily rent what I own (both vehicles are four-wheel drive and designed for off-roading), and one of those vehicles is a fairly rare machine (only about 5000 were sold in the United States). There are times, though, that I have been thankful I could rent a vehicle or take a cab or similar; sometimes you have no choice, or it's the better thing to do for the purpose at hand. In the future, with self-driving shared vehicles, this will be welcome for many purposes - but there will be downsides (likely, the first person to get the "destroyed vehicle" would decline it with a reason and it would be sent back to a depot for refurbishment).