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That's the business model of Zara, and there's nothing wrong with it. You can't "steal" something if it's public domain. If you die off because some Chinese se

That's the business model of Zara, and there's nothing wrong with it. You can't "steal" something if it's public domain. If you die off because some Chinese seller "stole" your idea which by the way you came up with first, then you deserve it because it means you didn't execute well enough. I think this kickstarter culture has done more harm than good for makers because it made them chase instant gratification instead of substance. If you look at what happened to all the ambitious Kickstarter hardware companies, there is not a single one I'm aware of that's on their track to wild success. People used to actually pour in their time and money (not just a slick youtube video) and risk all their reputation to build something that matters to them. I think at some point people decided to believe that you can take the shortcut via Kickstarter, but it's increasingly becoming clear that there is no such thing as shortcut. It still sucks for them that these inventors are not rewarded for their brilliant ideas, but then again, I think if you are really serious about your product, you should invest more into it and make sure things like this don't happen.

joatmon-snoo 10y ago
Formlabs seems to be on its way there. (I'm biased though, since I did once work there.)
danso 10y ago
> If you die off because some Chinese seller "stole" your idea which by the way you came up with first, then you deserve it because it means you didn't execute well enough. I won't argue that copying ideas and reimplementing them cheaper/faster doesn't have upsides. But one worry is that the immediate downsides are felt by the original inventors. Sure, cheap copying is nice for the consumer and reseller, but they're dependent on original inventors being incentivized. It's not impossible for inventors to go the slow, substantive route, in which they come up with a business plan and an idea, but that limits the work of creation to those who can manage that kind of timeline.
- cookiecaper 10y ago
  There are very few original ideas, and you'll just drive yourself and everyone around you crazy by fretting over originality. Don't fool yourself into believing that only Chinese companies are interested in ripping off ideas; this has been a major function of large companies for a very long time. We have to pop the fairytale bubble that some of us live in. Marketing and sales will win the day. No matter how fancy your technology is, there will be competitors and rivals, and it won't really matter who was "first". Being first can, in fact, be a substantial disadvantage, since you don't have the response/feedback from a competitor's prior attempt to gauge and reference.
knodi123 10y ago
> If you die off because some Chinese seller "stole" your idea which by the way you came up with first, then you deserve it because it means you didn't execute well enough. Okay, I think I understand this idea. If somebody else can cut corners by cheaping out on materials, or skipping testing, or relaxing tolerances, and their product still sells, then clearly your own standards were simply too high. > I think this kickstarter culture has done more harm than good for makers because it made them chase instant gratification instead of substance. This seems in contradiction to the first statement. If you take instant gratification, you're a symptom of more harm than good. If you take your time and do it right, you deserve to die because you're not going as fast as your competitors. ?
pacaro 10y ago
I don't know about "wild success" but the 3doodler is now sold in ToysRUs, so that seems like a reasonable metric for entering the mainstream given their area. MicroPython seems to have acquired a reasonable level of traction in the community too. If you look at how hard it is to pitch products like these and raise capital, then kickstarter is certainly living up to its name.
s73ver 10y ago
That's a rather harsh and Darwinistic view of things. Remember, the main purpose of Kickstarter is to raise funds to be able to bring this thing to market. If I have the idea, but no money, I deserve to have my idea stolen because I wasn't able to execute on having more money well enough?
- cocktailpeanuts 10y ago
  > If I have the idea, but no money, I deserve to have my idea stolen because I wasn't able to execute on having more money well enough? Nope you totally missed my point if that's your takeaway.
  - s73ver 9y ago
    No, that's precisely what you said. If I have not the money to execute, then I deserve to have my idea taken from me. That is what supporting the idea of knockoffs taking a kickstarter product means.

joatmon-snoo 10y ago

Formlabs seems to be on its way there. (I'm biased though, since I did once work there.)

danso 10y ago

> If you die off because some Chinese seller "stole" your idea which by the way you came up with first, then you deserve it because it means you didn't execute well enough. I won't argue that copying ideas and reimplementing them cheaper/faster doesn't have upsides. But one worry is that the immediate downsides are felt by the original inventors. Sure, cheap copying is nice for the consumer and reseller, but they're dependent on original inventors being incentivized. It's not impossible for inventors to go the slow, substantive route, in which they come up with a business plan and an idea, but that limits the work of creation to those who can manage that kind of timeline.

cookiecaper 10y ago
There are very few original ideas, and you'll just drive yourself and everyone around you crazy by fretting over originality. Don't fool yourself into believing that only Chinese companies are interested in ripping off ideas; this has been a major function of large companies for a very long time. We have to pop the fairytale bubble that some of us live in. Marketing and sales will win the day. No matter how fancy your technology is, there will be competitors and rivals, and it won't really matter who was "first". Being first can, in fact, be a substantial disadvantage, since you don't have the response/feedback from a competitor's prior attempt to gauge and reference.

knodi123 10y ago

> If you die off because some Chinese seller "stole" your idea which by the way you came up with first, then you deserve it because it means you didn't execute well enough. Okay, I think I understand this idea. If somebody else can cut corners by cheaping out on materials, or skipping testing, or relaxing tolerances, and their product still sells, then clearly your own standards were simply too high. > I think this kickstarter culture has done more harm than good for makers because it made them chase instant gratification instead of substance. This seems in contradiction to the first statement. If you take instant gratification, you're a symptom of more harm than good. If you take your time and do it right, you deserve to die because you're not going as fast as your competitors. ?

pacaro 10y ago

I don't know about "wild success" but the 3doodler is now sold in ToysRUs, so that seems like a reasonable metric for entering the mainstream given their area. MicroPython seems to have acquired a reasonable level of traction in the community too. If you look at how hard it is to pitch products like these and raise capital, then kickstarter is certainly living up to its name.

s73ver 10y ago

That's a rather harsh and Darwinistic view of things. Remember, the main purpose of Kickstarter is to raise funds to be able to bring this thing to market. If I have the idea, but no money, I deserve to have my idea stolen because I wasn't able to execute on having more money well enough?

cocktailpeanuts 10y ago
> If I have the idea, but no money, I deserve to have my idea stolen because I wasn't able to execute on having more money well enough? Nope you totally missed my point if that's your takeaway.
- s73ver 9y ago
  No, that's precisely what you said. If I have not the money to execute, then I deserve to have my idea taken from me. That is what supporting the idea of knockoffs taking a kickstarter product means.