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there's a huge number of sushi restaurants all over New York and a lot of them are not authentically Japanese nor are they owned or operated by Japanese America

there's a huge number of sushi restaurants all over New York and a lot of them are not authentically Japanese nor are they owned or operated by Japanese Americans. Sushi is very popular in New York, much more popular than the Japanese population alone would support. There are sushi restaurants in neighborhoods where the residents enjoy sushi. The absence of them in Chinatown is an indicator that the residents there (> 90% Chinese immigrants) don't like sushi.

ithinkinstereo 9y ago
Your observations basically boil down to "my co-worker, who is Chinese, does not like raw fish, therefore..." There are plenty of sushi restaurants in Chinatown: https://www.yelp.com/search?find_desc=sushi&start=0&l=p:NY:New_York:Manhattan:Chinatown https://www.yelp.com/search?find_desc=sushi&start=0&l=p:NY:N... There are also traditional - and popular - Chinese dishes that involve raw fish: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yusheng https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yusheng You have to understand that Chinese people are huge gluttons (I say this without any judgement). They love to eat.. there are even idioms about it! 1) http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/they_eat_anything_with_legs_except_a_table_and_anything_with_wings_except_a http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/they...
- et-al 9y ago
  re: Yunsheng > Place of origin: Singapore Generally, when we say Chinese, we refer to mainland China and Taiwan, not the Chinese Diaspora. This would be like saying Indian people love chicken tikka masala.
  - ithinkinstereo 9y ago
    That was one example. My personal favorite is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drunken_shrimp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drunken_shrimp
- metaphorm 9y ago
  I offered an anecdote, which I did not claim was an argument. Please don't be deliberately uncharitable. Did you check the results of your yelp search? that's 2 restaurants that are actually in Chinatown and actually serve sushi. An unusually small number for a neighborhood with one of the highest density of restaurants in the city. Did you read the wiki article you linked? this sentence is in the summary: "While versions of it are thought to have existed in China, the contemporary version was created and popularised[citation needed] in the 1960s amongst the ethnic Chinese community and its consumption has been associated with Chinese New Year festivities in Malaysia, Indonesia and Singapore." It's modern, and is a holiday feast meal served primarily by the Cantonese diaspora population. This isn't popular everyday eating, and is basically unknown on the mainland.
  - ithinkinstereo 9y ago
    That's true that raw seafood is absent in pre-1960s cuisine. But that's pretty much the case in all cuisines (after all, historically raw meat/fish = disease). Even contemporary sushi/sashimi was not popularized in Japanese cuisine until relatively recently during the Edo period (1700s-late 1800s). Pre-edo times, "raw" fish was mostly preserved fish. In regards to Chinatown, it's worth noting that many Chinese (and Korean) seafood restaurants also serve raw seafood (sashimi, poke, oysters, raw clams, etc.) Perhaps Yelp is being too liberal with what they define as "Chinatown", but a quick pass on Yelp with the "Chinatown" area checked, returned the following: Japanese restaurants: * https://www.yelp.com/biz/alin-sushi-new-york-4 https://www.yelp.com/biz/alin-sushi-new-york-4 * https://www.yelp.com/biz/mika-japanese-cuisine-and-bar-new-york https://www.yelp.com/biz/mika-japanese-cuisine-and-bar-new-y... * https://www.yelp.com/biz/gohan-new-york https://www.yelp.com/biz/gohan-new-york * https://www.yelp.com/biz/aplus-sushi-new-york-2 https://www.yelp.com/biz/aplus-sushi-new-york-2 Chinese restaurants: * https://www.yelp.com/biz/pings-seafood-new-york https://www.yelp.com/biz/pings-seafood-new-york? * https://www.yelp.com/biz/oriental-garden-restaurant-new-york https://www.yelp.com/biz/oriental-garden-restaurant-new-york * https://www.yelp.com/biz/chinese-tuxedo-new-york-2 https://www.yelp.com/biz/chinese-tuxedo-new-york-2 Fusion: * https://www.yelp.com/biz/cutting-board-new-york https://www.yelp.com/biz/cutting-board-new-york * https://www.yelp.com/biz/bar-belly-new-york https://www.yelp.com/biz/bar-belly-new-york * https://www.yelp.com/biz/dimes-deli-new-york https://www.yelp.com/biz/dimes-deli-new-york
Arizhel 9y ago
>there's a huge number of sushi restaurants all over New York and a lot of them are not authentically Japanese nor are they owned or operated by Japanese Americans That's true everywhere in the US. It's very hard to find an authentic Japanese restaurant, and even harder to find one run by actual Japanese people. Usually, "Japanese" restaurants are run by Koreans.
- logfromblammo 9y ago
  Well... that's one step closer to authentic than a "Japanese" restaurant run by Han Chinese, I guess. In my town, the authentic Japanese restaurant was next to the Subaru and Mitsubishi/Toyota car dealerships, and was pretty much there just so the auto executives had a reliably Japanese place to eat while visiting. It went out of business. Japanese people may be the best at making a restaurant authentically Japanese, but Han are (anecdotally) much better at making a Japanese-themed restaurant authentically profitable.
  - Arizhel 9y ago
    Sure, but the discussion here wasn't profitability, it was authenticity. You're not going to find many authentic Japanese restaurants in America, especially outside of major cities which have enough Japanese people to support them. I have a Japanese girlfriend, and for her it's a big deal to go to an authentic Japanese restaurant; some "Japanese-themed" restaurant run by Chinese people isn't of much interest to her, she'd probably rather go for a burger than that. (Luckily, she likes burgers too, as long as they're good.)
jandrese 9y ago
As I understand it the majority of Sushi restaurants in the US (dunno about China) are run by Koreans. There was a weird religious cult thing that did the legwork to set up sushi grade fish distribution on a large scale and flooded the market with restaurants. Sometimes the clues are really blatant that it's not an authentic Japanese restaurant. There used to be a Sushi place a few miles down the road where the hirigana on the sign spelled out Arikato.

ithinkinstereo 9y ago

Your observations basically boil down to "my co-worker, who is Chinese, does not like raw fish, therefore..." There are plenty of sushi restaurants in Chinatown: https://www.yelp.com/search?find_desc=sushi&start=0&l=p:NY:New_York:Manhattan:Chinatown https://www.yelp.com/search?find_desc=sushi&start=0&l=p:NY:N... There are also traditional - and popular - Chinese dishes that involve raw fish: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yusheng https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yusheng You have to understand that Chinese people are huge gluttons (I say this without any judgement). They love to eat.. there are even idioms about it! 1) http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/they_eat_anything_with_legs_except_a_table_and_anything_with_wings_except_a http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/they...

et-al 9y ago
re: Yunsheng > Place of origin: Singapore Generally, when we say Chinese, we refer to mainland China and Taiwan, not the Chinese Diaspora. This would be like saying Indian people love chicken tikka masala.
- ithinkinstereo 9y ago
  That was one example. My personal favorite is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drunken_shrimp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drunken_shrimp
metaphorm 9y ago
I offered an anecdote, which I did not claim was an argument. Please don't be deliberately uncharitable. Did you check the results of your yelp search? that's 2 restaurants that are actually in Chinatown and actually serve sushi. An unusually small number for a neighborhood with one of the highest density of restaurants in the city. Did you read the wiki article you linked? this sentence is in the summary: "While versions of it are thought to have existed in China, the contemporary version was created and popularised[citation needed] in the 1960s amongst the ethnic Chinese community and its consumption has been associated with Chinese New Year festivities in Malaysia, Indonesia and Singapore." It's modern, and is a holiday feast meal served primarily by the Cantonese diaspora population. This isn't popular everyday eating, and is basically unknown on the mainland.
- ithinkinstereo 9y ago
  That's true that raw seafood is absent in pre-1960s cuisine. But that's pretty much the case in all cuisines (after all, historically raw meat/fish = disease). Even contemporary sushi/sashimi was not popularized in Japanese cuisine until relatively recently during the Edo period (1700s-late 1800s). Pre-edo times, "raw" fish was mostly preserved fish. In regards to Chinatown, it's worth noting that many Chinese (and Korean) seafood restaurants also serve raw seafood (sashimi, poke, oysters, raw clams, etc.) Perhaps Yelp is being too liberal with what they define as "Chinatown", but a quick pass on Yelp with the "Chinatown" area checked, returned the following: Japanese restaurants: * https://www.yelp.com/biz/alin-sushi-new-york-4 https://www.yelp.com/biz/alin-sushi-new-york-4 * https://www.yelp.com/biz/mika-japanese-cuisine-and-bar-new-york https://www.yelp.com/biz/mika-japanese-cuisine-and-bar-new-y... * https://www.yelp.com/biz/gohan-new-york https://www.yelp.com/biz/gohan-new-york * https://www.yelp.com/biz/aplus-sushi-new-york-2 https://www.yelp.com/biz/aplus-sushi-new-york-2 Chinese restaurants: * https://www.yelp.com/biz/pings-seafood-new-york https://www.yelp.com/biz/pings-seafood-new-york? * https://www.yelp.com/biz/oriental-garden-restaurant-new-york https://www.yelp.com/biz/oriental-garden-restaurant-new-york * https://www.yelp.com/biz/chinese-tuxedo-new-york-2 https://www.yelp.com/biz/chinese-tuxedo-new-york-2 Fusion: * https://www.yelp.com/biz/cutting-board-new-york https://www.yelp.com/biz/cutting-board-new-york * https://www.yelp.com/biz/bar-belly-new-york https://www.yelp.com/biz/bar-belly-new-york * https://www.yelp.com/biz/dimes-deli-new-york https://www.yelp.com/biz/dimes-deli-new-york

Arizhel 9y ago

>there's a huge number of sushi restaurants all over New York and a lot of them are not authentically Japanese nor are they owned or operated by Japanese Americans That's true everywhere in the US. It's very hard to find an authentic Japanese restaurant, and even harder to find one run by actual Japanese people. Usually, "Japanese" restaurants are run by Koreans.

logfromblammo 9y ago
Well... that's one step closer to authentic than a "Japanese" restaurant run by Han Chinese, I guess. In my town, the authentic Japanese restaurant was next to the Subaru and Mitsubishi/Toyota car dealerships, and was pretty much there just so the auto executives had a reliably Japanese place to eat while visiting. It went out of business. Japanese people may be the best at making a restaurant authentically Japanese, but Han are (anecdotally) much better at making a Japanese-themed restaurant authentically profitable.
- Arizhel 9y ago
  Sure, but the discussion here wasn't profitability, it was authenticity. You're not going to find many authentic Japanese restaurants in America, especially outside of major cities which have enough Japanese people to support them. I have a Japanese girlfriend, and for her it's a big deal to go to an authentic Japanese restaurant; some "Japanese-themed" restaurant run by Chinese people isn't of much interest to her, she'd probably rather go for a burger than that. (Luckily, she likes burgers too, as long as they're good.)

jandrese 9y ago

As I understand it the majority of Sushi restaurants in the US (dunno about China) are run by Koreans. There was a weird religious cult thing that did the legwork to set up sushi grade fish distribution on a large scale and flooded the market with restaurants. Sometimes the clues are really blatant that it's not an authentic Japanese restaurant. There used to be a Sushi place a few miles down the road where the hirigana on the sign spelled out Arikato.