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Do any of you have children at a school using Google Chromebooks and Google Drive? Calling Windows S a Chromebook competitor completely misses the point. Chrom
by russellbeattie 10y ago
Do any of you have children at a school using Google Chromebooks and Google Drive? Calling Windows S a Chromebook competitor completely misses the point.
Chromebooks are instant on, and your profile/data is 100% cloud based. You can grab any Chromebook from the rack in the back of the classroom, open it up, log in and immediately get to work on your report or whatever.
I got an original Chromebook from Google I/O years ago based on an ancient ARM chip, and it's still perfectly usable for when my kid's friend comes over to do homework and they need an extra box.
Windows and Mac computers will never be that easy to setup, use or maintain. Chromebooks and the cloud system of apps that Google has made is pretty much a perfect combination of simple and cheap and good enough.
- krzyk 10y agoUntil you loose internet connectivity (happens from time to time), or go abroad and don't want to pay high fees for net access. Or when Google decides that you broke some of their rules (frequently happens in AdSense) and blocks all of your accounts.
- opportune 10y agoI think you're missing the point. Children don't need to worry about breaking AdSense rules and getting their accounts blocked, especially if they have accounts dedicated for school. Children also will have internet at school.
- BatFastard 10y agoExactly, these are single purpose laptops for education. And I do believe that google docs has an offline mode now. So they can work offline for a limited period (at least). And how does this 1000 USD compete with 250 USD boxes?
- rubyn00bie 10y agoThe way it likely competes (which I'm not saying I agree with) is on supportability and productivity. That is to say, I'm sure Microsoft has data that "shows" these will be cheaper to administrate and support than Chromebooks. Combine that with all the software you can install, or offline workflows, etc and Microsoft comes out on top (according to Microsoft). It's how Microsoft has always done things. I'm not here saying it's right or wrong, I'm just trying to answer your question.
- shimon 10y agoActually, this is more like the opposite of how Microsoft has always done things. When they've entered markets, from OS to word processing to RDBMS to web browsers, they've consistently produced simpler, cheaper products. Then they've gradually improved them until they became credible competitors and often dominant choices. With phones, tablets, and now cheap school laptops, their timing didn't allow that. Google has already succeeded with the classic Microsoft strategy, all the way down to commoditizing the hardware vendors. Microsoft is instead coming in as a semi-premium option, combined with inertia/safety as a brand trusted by enterprises. The same play is a bit more successful in cloud computing, but they're still losing to AWS who are nailing the classic Microsoft strategy. Assuming they continue to decline in their ability to rapid-follow in new technology platforms, I expect they'll look more and more like Oracle and IBM.
- jasikpark 10y agoIt doesn't. The $139 windows laptop Microsoft is coming out with later this year will.
- kodfodrasz 10y agoThis sound very interesting! Could you please provide some link to back up this claim?
- Analemma_ 10y agoWindows 10 S will run on other devices besides the Surface Laptop, most of which will cost closer to $250. The Surface is just the flagship device for it.
- BatFastard 10y agoI just dont get why I would ever spent 1000 USD on a model that does less than the Surface for a similar price.
- zepto 10y agoBut we should worry about google building advertising profiles on children, as they have been doing.
- opportune 10y agoVery true, I was thinking of Chromebooks purely from a utility standpoint, but if parts of Google's plan is to build profiles on children starting from when they're young, that is actually especially nefarious. I'm worried most of all that Google will use some sort of sentiment analysis or other machine learning tool to classify kids based on academic ability and build a sort of "cognitive profile" on children as they age.
- ixacto 10y agoThis is really disturbing. Pretty much the literal definition of "hook em wile they're young. I am starting to think we need a standard oil style breakup of google/amazon/fb.
- donalhunt 10y agoI do not believe this statement to be true. The privacy notice provided by Google for their G Suite for Education is available here: https://gsuite.google.com/terms/education_privacy.html https://gsuite.google.com/terms/education_privacy.html It clearly states "Google does not serve ads in the Core Services or use personal information collected in the Core Services for advertising purposes." Is the evidence that indicates this is not true? Is this in relation to non-core services that school administrators may opt into?
- morganvachon 10y agoThey aren't using it for advertising purposes right now, but they can still collect and store the data on children thanks to outdated privacy laws. Once the child comes of age all of that information is fair game according to their own policy (once the child becomes an adult, if they continue to use their account or link it to a new Google account, they are automatically under Google's normal privacy policy which we all know allows them to harvest everything you do within their services). https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2015/12/28/google-is-tracking-students-as-it-sells-more-products-to-schools-privacy-advocates-warn/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2015/12/28...
- krzyk 10y agoI didn't know that there are special accounts, I assumed they are reusing their own. If it is like a corporate accounts in other places then yes, no need to worry about blocking the account.
- aaronbasssett 10y agoThey don't use their personal accounts. Accounts are managed for students in much the same way as the would be for a business hosted with Google Apps - https://edu.google.com/ https://edu.google.com/
- natch 10y agoMy child lost her firstname.lastname gmail/Google account for life for a one-time childish mistake. So, I guess you are mistaken.
- PuffinBlue 10y agoAnd what was this one-time childish mistake that lead to losing the account?
- adamking 10y agoI'm curious as well. There's little a child, let alone an adult, could that would result in a permaban.
- adamking 10y agodo
- CamperBob2 10y agoSee the story the other day, where someone discovered the hard way what happens if you registered your PayPal account before you turned 18.
- IsmaOlvey 10y agoThe story, for anyone else wondering what was referred to: https://hackernoon.com/paypal-is-still-one-of-the-worst-online-examples-of-customer-service-42f3c13f6cd0 https://hackernoon.com/paypal-is-still-one-of-the-worst-onli...
- s73ver 10y agoSpammed AdSense with fraudulent clicks, and impersonated other apps in the Play Store.
- natch 10y agoShe saw a chain email (i.e. forward this to 10 people!) and decided it would be fun to make up her own. Apparently it was successful enough to get somebody's attention. Edit: To be clear, I would never blame them for wanting to stop a cascading explosion of emails. But I also wouldn't say it's impossible for a child to get an account banned.
- LeoPanthera 10y agoI've never used a Chromebook so this is an honest question - do they not have any kind of local sync, so you can work on your stuff and then upload it back to the cloud next time you get online?
- BHSPitMonkey 10y agoOnly to the extent that the sites/apps themselves choose to do that.
- Filligree 10y agoYou do have the option of installing Android apps, so there should usually be something.
- alpha_squared 10y agoThere is local sync for Google Drive applications (Docs, Sheets, whatever the other ones are called). There is, albeit small, an internal SSD for Chromebooks. On the whole, it's up to the web app developers to handle that functionality.
- sowbug 10y agoThere are also local apps. The app platform is a little like Electron or Node -- locally-installed JavaScript with extra APIs that aren't available on the open web. Examples: Caret text editor: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/caret/fljalecfjciodhpcledpamjachpmelml https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/caret/fljalecfjcio... Text text editor: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/text/mmfbcljfglbokpmkimbfghdkjmjhdgbg https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/text/mmfbcljfglbok... You can save stuff on Google Drive, and then it'll sync when back online. People often say that Chromebooks don't have apps and that they're just a web browser. They're wrong.
- azag0 10y agoThat kind of misses the point for school use. But yes, for personal use you're right
- krzyk 10y agoAt schools, during exams internet connectivity is disabled on purpose. How Chromebooks work then? EDIT: Why the down votes? My wife is a teacher and disabling internet access during any kind of a test (not to mention exam).
- dsr_ 10y agoAt schools that use Chromebooks, they take away the Chromebooks during exams -- unless the exam is being taken on the Chromebook, which is a thing that happens.
- lucasmullens 10y agoYou take digital exams on computers without internet access? Where and how?
- zuron7 10y agoI'm guessing over the local network.
- krzyk 10y agoAt schools in Poland. You can't have internet access so you won't look up answers on the internet. You have just computer in from of you. It's pretty standard way of doing any kind of grading. Example would be for programming class or for office suite. You don't need internet to work in IDE or in Office.
- squeaky-clean 10y agoAs long as you log in before internet is disabled (don't show up late to class?), you'll be in your user account. The laptop screens don't become black once they lose internet connection. Google Docs/Sheets/etc supports offline editing, and a quick Google shows there are IDE's that run on a chromebook with offline mode support.
- bitmapbrother 10y agoDo you really think you can't use a Chromebook in offline mode?
- krzyk 10y agoI don't know - gp wrote that the data is "100% cloud based" so I assumed they don't.
- bitmapbrother 10y agoYou can use many ChromeOS apps in offline mode. And if your ChromeOS laptop supports Android apps then all of the apps are available whether offline or online.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- pkulak 10y agoOr someone smashes your machine with a hammer, or there's a nuclear war... All kinds of things can go wrong. I'm not really sure what your point is.
- Koshkin 10y ago> Or... or... The point, I guess, would be that losing internet connection for these reasons is not an issue.
- ChairmanPao 10y agoI don't understand. What do you mean by 'loose' internet connectivity?
- owaislone 10y agoExcept they work fairly well offline if you choose to store some data offline or in pen drives. Also, latest ones run almost the whole play store which completely changes the game. They can work as better android tablets when offline.
- Buge 10y agoYou lose your entire google account for breaking adsense rules? I thought you just lost the ability to do adsense stuff.
- vezycash 10y agoRecently, yes, you only lose adsense access - at least in my recent experience. Originally, you lost the email account. I once lost an adsense account by doing absolutely nothing. I was in a university where internet was slow and hard to get. After a semester, logged back into my adsense connected blogger account but was told the account was blocked and couldn't be retrieved.
- gcb0 10y agoor google gets tired of supporting whatever server those machines won't function without.
- Gaelan 10y agoHS student (15) here. Occasionally use chromebooks when we have time in class to work on the assignment.
- thebspatrol 10y agoWhat is the overall sentiment like for them? I recently interacted with a high school kid that was given a school-provided chromebook that had the most inane website filters following him around, the USB ports literally disabled, and tons of hoops to jump through to accomplish simple tasks. For such a locked down platform, you really would think they wouldn't have to pull this shit.
- Gaelan 10y agoSentiment is slightly negative. Chrome OS is unpopular among techies for not doing things "real" computers can do. Login used to be very sluggish (it goes through a district SSO page, not normal google login), maybe it is better now? Don't think I've heard anyone say good things about them, but not a lot of complaints either. The web filter is minimal (porn, pretty much), but that's just the district wifi (opendns), not the chromebooks themselves.
- devopsproject 10y ago> log in and immediately get to work on your report or whatever office365\onedrive allows this. if your docs are simple, you can do it from your phone or tablet too. you are correct that you get a "whole" experience with a chromebook which is nice.
- UnoriginalGuy 10y agoAfter your AD Profile is downloaded to the laptop which can take several minutes, and often the profile will remain on the machine after you return it to the cart. Plus software/settings might vary from machine to machine even from the same laptop cart. The thing about Chromebooks is that the state is always consistent and your settings follow you. That's much harder to attain with Windows laptops (not impossible mind you, there is software that will revert a Windows machine back to a set state, but that isn't common/standard). O365 is a great package for organisations (e.g. Planner, Teams, OneNote Online, Lync, etc) but in that situation you're giving employees laptops to keep as their own. In schools you want the machines to be disposable, in that situation Chromebooks are special. OneDrive is just a DropBox clone, it doesn't really solve many pain-points.
- oneplane 10y agoThe whole Windows, AD, O365 etc. experience is a PITA. I know there are all sorts of technological legacy and legacy business reasons for that, but let's face it: in the current form, the Windows model can't compare to something integrated like a Chromebook. It's not about who is 'better' or technically more capable, it's about what works for users, and Windows isn't it. Most of the time it is just what 'happens to be there'. That seems to be forgotten quite often. I do wonder when some form of revised windows will come along that does away with 16-bit/32-bit legacy stuff, removes all the ancient API's and just focuses on the here and now. Breaking hard is of course not really Microsoft's way, as they make far more money by keeping legacy and tradition around, touting 'business support'.
- AnonymousPlanet 10y agoI would love to see that day. Maybe do away with most of the over engineered concepts as well.
- fpoling 10y agoI am curious if Chromebook for schools completely block access to development mode? I have found out that with that mode enabled and Crouton I could develope Java applications offline using Eclipse and testing things using local webserver.
- metamet 10y agoI believe they use this: https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/business/devices/features-management-console.html https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/business/devices/featu...
- jtnews 10y agoI believe blocking it is an option. Can't do developer mode if you're enrolled and they can force enrollment on a device so if you try to wipe it and access developer mode it refuses and forces you back to enrollment.
- hackuser 10y agoHow are privacy issues handled, especially for the schoolchildren?
- ChuckMcM 10y agoI was thinking it would be interesting if you could get ChromeOS for these new laptops :-)
- UnoriginalGuy 10y agoI suppose. But Google already tried the $1K Chromebook with the Pixel line, it didn't do too well against the $250-400 competition.
- 72deluxe 10y agoThe Pixel line was impressive apart from the abysmal onboard storage. I would have considered one for a Linux laptop but the less-than-desktop-functionality OS (thereby reducing your expensive device to a glorified web browser) paired with the joke storage meant it was never going to get far?
- johndotsun 10y agoI thought the Pixel line was more meant for internal consumption and as a tech demonstration for the capabilities of Chrome OS rather than as serious effort by Google to create a high volume mass consumption product.
- askvictor 10y agoCloudready provides chromiumOS for 'normal' laptops (well, supported ones anyway)
- QML 10y agoYeah, my high school has them and your description is spot on. What I notice is that Google's chromebook ecosystem is dedicated towards sharing and collaborating which works well at schools.
- Steko 10y ago> Windows and Mac computers will never be that easy to setup, use or maintain. While half true, I think Microsoft could ship that if they wanted to. Moreover, only listing the things Chromebooks are great at is also missing the point: there are areas where Chromebooks suck and that is where Microsoft can compete.
- UnoriginalGuy 10y ago> there are areas where Chromebooks suck and that is where Microsoft can compete. Absolutely, but Windows 10 S cannot do any of them. Windows 10 Home/Pro can, but we are talking about the S version which is more comparable functionality wise to a Chromebook. Particularly a Chromebook that can run Android apps.
- 72deluxe 10y agoWhat does the S stand for in this instance? Scuppered? Slow? Substandard? Hopefully Speedy, Superior or Sublime. Reminds me of the RT version - Reduced Throughput
- hkmurakami 10y agoAre they targeting HS or College students? The decmvice looks good for the latter.
- natch 10y agoIs Google drive still free for only three years? Are you past three years yet, and, if so, what is the monthly cost per user / per Chromebook?
- theGimp 10y agoGoogle Drive is only free for three years? That's news to me. I'm quite certain I've been a user for 4+ years (since its release). I don't own a Chromebook though. Maybe that would change things.
- exception_e 10y agoUnless it's different with Chromebooks, it's free up to 15 GB.
- calebsurfs 10y agoWhen you get a chromebook you can redeem an offer for 100gb free for 2 years. When your 2 years is up, files aren't deleted but you can't upload anything else until you're below the 15gb. Drive is always free up to 15gb.
- cptskippy 10y ago> Chromebooks are instant on, and your profile/data is 100% cloud based. You can grab any Chromebook from the rack in the back of the classroom, open it up, log in and immediately get to work on your report or whatever. First of of all that's not entirely true. Nothing is instant. It wakes up fast, but not instantly. Login is fast, but not instant. First time login is fastish but not fast or instant. Windows has had Roaming User Profiles since NT, Google calling the feature "cloud based" is just another way of saying remote. Since Windows 8 you could have a Microsoft Account which was a "cloud based" user profile and use Sky/One Drive which is a "cloud based" data repository. My guess is you didn't watch the webcast? They made special mention of the fact that with Windows 10 S they had improved the login and first login times to be much faster than your typical Windows experience. > I got an original Chromebook from Google I/O years ago based on an ancient ARM chip, and it's still perfectly usable for when my kid's friend comes over to do homework and they need an extra box. That was what they advertised here. In Windows 10 prior to this announcement you could grant any other Microsoft Account access to login to your machine and it would download their profile and provide them access to their One Drive. The experience isn't as fast as on a Chromebook but it's less than a minute. The emphasis in this announcement was that with Windows 10 S they got it down to under 20 seconds which is Chromebook speed. > Windows and Mac computers will never be that easy to setup, use or maintain. I would disagree. With what they announced today, Windows 10 S is pretty damn close.
- zht 10y agoisn't this just being pedantic? for most people "fast enough" equates to instant. if you asked most people if anything was "instant", they'd say yes and point to a number of things that feel "instant" to them. It doesn't feel useful to nit on use of the word instant by using a definition that differs from most people.
- jodrellblank 10y agoif the claim is that Chromebooks are instant and Windows is slow, and the counterclaim is that Windows 10 S is down to 20s which is "Chromebook speeds" because they're not actually instant, then it seems very useful to point out. (I haven't used either)
- askvictor 10y agoAlso, the price. Sure there are cheaper variants announced but they won't start up as fast. I don't think MS has played this one well at all.
- wslh 10y agoCould I run Haskell in the Chromebook? I mean, the real Haskell compiled to the platform.
- angry-hacker 10y agoYes if you're willing to mess with crouton.
- Spooky23 10y agoI use them at work for mobile users. Perfect for most uses out of the can, and can connect to VDI.
- exadeci 10y agoWho called it a Chromebook competitor? They compare it to a Mac but I can't find anything about a chromebook.
- owaislone 10y agoSimple, cheap and very very secure. I recently bought a Samsung Chromebook Pro. I don't use my Macbook for anything anymore except for coding.
- tcube 10y agoTerry Myerson demonstrates a PC management app which streamlines setup at around 24 min into the video at http://event.microsoft.com/MayEvent/ http://event.microsoft.com/MayEvent/. The demonstrations look promising.
- fibo 10y agoI use a Chromebook and it is great, also for the price. I think MS will not succed with a 999$ semi laptop.
- guardian5x 10y agoIf i understand the laptop is more like a flagship Windows 10 S device. They said there are other devices plant for as little as 189$.
- Top19 10y agoFound the Google employee. For many reasons, Hacker News is FILLED TO THE BRIM with Google employees. I know this because anytime an article comes on here about Google Cloud that thread is immediately taken over by employees (many of whom to their credit identity as such) talking about how much better GCP is than AWS. Now GCP today is kind of cool, still somewhat away from AWS but they certainly could catch up for sure, especially as the world shifts to more AI stuff where Google is already beating AWS. However I remember back in 2014 seeing comments about how much better GCP was than AWS. Let me just state that that was physical impossible back then. Laughable and again, physically impossible. It's so impossible I'm still mildly upset all these years later. Sorry for the rant but did want to document that here. That being said my sister uses Google Adsense for work and she has no complaints :)
- Dibes 10y agoJust to let you know, that person is not and never was a Google employee according to their resume
- russellbeattie 10y agoHeh, thanks for checking me out. :-) So weird that someone uses their real name on the internet, right?
- Top19 9y agoHah just seeing this now. Sorry Mr. Russell!
- edpichler 10y agoI think Chromebook is great for when you have wifi, I don't have when traveling. For this, I am thinking on a Macbook Air and this Microsoft surface seems nice (a copycat but OK). I have a business app that needs Windows and I work on Mac.
- 746F7475 10y agoChromebooks are great for most people, I even used one in college, but I did "side load" Ubuntu with Crouton for programming.
- esotericsean 10y agoMy dad is a computer tech at a school district. They have something like 800 Chromebooks. He can't keep up with how quickly they break. Kids are very rough with them.
- jbdigriz 10y agoSharing laptops like bowling shoes and being forced to sync everything with cloud for privacy pillaging - outside of a grade school context, this is the apocalypse scenario to me.