5 ms·

Enough with this crap, many places have one provider to choose from. This is especially true in cities where many live in apartments or condos, and also in rura

Enough with this crap, many places have one provider to choose from. This is especially true in cities where many live in apartments or condos, and also in rural areas where the cost of build-out is very high.

snickerbockers 10y ago
That's because government regulations create artificial entry barriers that preclude a free and open market. It's foolhardy to believe that adding more regulations will solve anything.
- s73ver 10y ago
  Starting an ISP is incredibly expensive, even if you didn't have regulations. If you got rid of all ISP regulations tomorrow, you would be lucky if in 3 years you'd start to see competition. And most places wouldn't be valuable enough to have more than one provider. When you argue for getting rid of these regulations, you're basically saying that a bunch of people don't deserve quality, neutral internet.
  - snickerbockers 10y ago
    I've been to rural areas, I'm well aware that millions of people live without reliable high-speed internet connections all over the United States, and those regulations you support haven't fixed it. Meanwhile, there are poor people in India who aren't going to get internet access because they can't afford it themselves, and net neutrality legislation has removed the profit-motive that would have incentivized private corporations to provide it to them for free. And net neutrality advocates are cheering it on like it's a huge victory that they've deprived all these people of modern technology. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/08/india-facebook-free-basics-net-neutrality-row https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/08/india-fac...
    - alphabettsy 10y ago
      How about making your argument without shifting it to the other side of the globe. The brand new regulations that have been fought by the same people introducing this bill haven't been effective? Duh, they weren't even in existence long enough. Sure the best way would be for our lawmakers to actually make laws protecting privacy and providing basic consumer protections rather than relying on the FCC, but Congress is almost completely dysfunctional.
      - snickerbockers 10y ago
        > How about making your argument without shifting it to the other side of the globe. Because most lifeforms are capable of observational learning. > The brand new regulations that have been fought by the same people introducing this bill haven't been effective? Duh, they weren't even in existence long enough. I don't know what alternate universe you live in, but the government has been meddling in the telecom industry for a long time.
    - s73ver 10y ago
      You haven't answered the question as to why people who live in rural areas, where there likely wouldn't be competition anyway, don't deserve net neutrality. And I'm sorry, but if the only reason you're giving internet "for free" is so that you can violate net neutrality, then you are not doing anyone a service.
      - snickerbockers 10y ago
        They don't deserve net neutrality if they choose to do business with an ISP that doesn't give it to them. You say that they don't have a choice because there's no competition; I say there's no competition because government regulations raise entry barriers and remove profit motives. > And I'm sorry, but if the only reason you're giving internet "for free" is so that you can violate net neutrality, then you are not doing anyone a service. You're certainly not doing anybody a service by trying to prevent a transaction that doesn't even involve you because you don't like the terms.
- anigbrowl 10y ago
  Your claim is bullshit. There's a whole thread here with discussions in varying levels of detail about the market for internet services, and HN is a community with a lot of technical expertise, experience, and economic knowledge. When you make cliche ideological claims with zero supporting evidence that ignore all that pre-existing context, then I'm going to call bullshit every single time I see them. I do not think you're arguing in good faith here.
  - snickerbockers 10y ago
    Here's net neutrality preventing millions of people in a developing nation from accessing the internet: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/08/india-facebook-free-basics-net-neutrality-row https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/08/india-fac... > HN is a community with a lot of technical expertise, experience, and economic knowledge. ahahahahaha, no.

snickerbockers 10y ago

That's because government regulations create artificial entry barriers that preclude a free and open market. It's foolhardy to believe that adding more regulations will solve anything.

s73ver 10y ago
Starting an ISP is incredibly expensive, even if you didn't have regulations. If you got rid of all ISP regulations tomorrow, you would be lucky if in 3 years you'd start to see competition. And most places wouldn't be valuable enough to have more than one provider. When you argue for getting rid of these regulations, you're basically saying that a bunch of people don't deserve quality, neutral internet.
- snickerbockers 10y ago
  I've been to rural areas, I'm well aware that millions of people live without reliable high-speed internet connections all over the United States, and those regulations you support haven't fixed it. Meanwhile, there are poor people in India who aren't going to get internet access because they can't afford it themselves, and net neutrality legislation has removed the profit-motive that would have incentivized private corporations to provide it to them for free. And net neutrality advocates are cheering it on like it's a huge victory that they've deprived all these people of modern technology. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/08/india-facebook-free-basics-net-neutrality-row https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/08/india-fac...
  - alphabettsy 10y ago
    How about making your argument without shifting it to the other side of the globe. The brand new regulations that have been fought by the same people introducing this bill haven't been effective? Duh, they weren't even in existence long enough. Sure the best way would be for our lawmakers to actually make laws protecting privacy and providing basic consumer protections rather than relying on the FCC, but Congress is almost completely dysfunctional.
    - snickerbockers 10y ago
      > How about making your argument without shifting it to the other side of the globe. Because most lifeforms are capable of observational learning. > The brand new regulations that have been fought by the same people introducing this bill haven't been effective? Duh, they weren't even in existence long enough. I don't know what alternate universe you live in, but the government has been meddling in the telecom industry for a long time.
  - s73ver 10y ago
    You haven't answered the question as to why people who live in rural areas, where there likely wouldn't be competition anyway, don't deserve net neutrality. And I'm sorry, but if the only reason you're giving internet "for free" is so that you can violate net neutrality, then you are not doing anyone a service.
    - snickerbockers 10y ago
      They don't deserve net neutrality if they choose to do business with an ISP that doesn't give it to them. You say that they don't have a choice because there's no competition; I say there's no competition because government regulations raise entry barriers and remove profit motives. > And I'm sorry, but if the only reason you're giving internet "for free" is so that you can violate net neutrality, then you are not doing anyone a service. You're certainly not doing anybody a service by trying to prevent a transaction that doesn't even involve you because you don't like the terms.
anigbrowl 10y ago
Your claim is bullshit. There's a whole thread here with discussions in varying levels of detail about the market for internet services, and HN is a community with a lot of technical expertise, experience, and economic knowledge. When you make cliche ideological claims with zero supporting evidence that ignore all that pre-existing context, then I'm going to call bullshit every single time I see them. I do not think you're arguing in good faith here.
- snickerbockers 10y ago
  Here's net neutrality preventing millions of people in a developing nation from accessing the internet: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/08/india-facebook-free-basics-net-neutrality-row https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/08/india-fac... > HN is a community with a lot of technical expertise, experience, and economic knowledge. ahahahahaha, no.