6 ms·

If this thing could be persuaded to run Linux out of the box with no driver problems, it could be a Macbook killer.

fosco 9y ago
this would be my dream laptop if it ran linux out of the box. I really wish a linux laptop with this type of design was put out for an affordable price, I really think its a major opportunity for a large business market there. I think there is a lot of room for improvement on the "librem' laptops...
- haswell 9y ago
  The Dell XPS 13 mostly fits the bill in terms of design. The Linux support is excellent.
  - exclusiv 9y ago
    I second that. Love my XPS developer edition.
  - eikenberry 9y ago
    They look great except for the battery, it sucks.
    - 72deluxe 9y ago
      Is that Linux' fault though instead of the Dell itself? I mean, Mac OS has app nap and I noticed the difference on the same hardware after OSX 10.whatever introduced it (I got an hour extra battery life!). When I reboot the same hardware into Windows, I get worse battery life than under Mac OS, obviously doing different things and an entirely different architecture (RPC, COM calls etc.) but I know it's not the hardware at fault. Is Linux architecture at fault for the Dell? Just curious. I wonder if there is significantly different battery life for the same machine running different OS (eg. Windows vs Linux).
      - eikenberry 9y ago
        I was talking raw WHr rating, not power usage. Linux's mediocre power management is one of the reasons I put extra emphasis on the battery when shopping for a laptop. My t450s w/ the 6 cell external has 72WHr vs the XPS13 of that time had 54WHr. Plus my Lenovo battery is hot-swappable. They have improved upon this some as the current XPS13 has 60WHr. But they still are lacking in this area.
- lorenzhs 9y ago
  If you're willing to comprimise on price, the new ThinkPad X1 Carbon is a fantastic Linux business laptop.
  - noatime 9y ago
    The ThinkPad X1 Carbon had just been "coreboot" supported ( so it will be soon the libreboot best/newest one ? ) : that's one big add-point to Linux . ( Sorry if I misunderstood something , it's my first post and I'm not so geeky :) , english too is not my native language )
    - lorenzhs 9y ago
      The model supported by coreboot is the first generation X1 Carbon, which is 4-5 years old now. I'm talking about the 5th generation, which has only been available for a few months.
      - noatime 9y ago
        @lorezhs : Thanks.
      - city41 9y ago
        Any idea if the trackpad is better? I have three Thinkpads (including the previous Carbon), all running Linux, and the trackpads are just terrible. I'm spoiled because I'm used to the MacBook trackpad.
        dm319 9y ago
        the 5th gen uses the microsoft precision standard (i.e. sends the raw input to the OS to interpret) - reported to be as good as the surface book, and close to macbook.
        lorenzhs 9y ago
        I don't use it (I'm a big fan of the trackpoint), but the trackpad's surface feels very pleasant. Can't comment on the accuracy, I probably wouldn't even be able to properly judge or compare it to the MacBook, but I've heard good things from other people.
amiga-workbench 9y ago
It never happened with the other Surfaces, I bought a Pro 2 hoping for some Linux support. It never panned out (Marvell wireless chipset had no drivers) I ended up going back to an old ThinkPad.
- 0wl3x 9y ago
  I've been running Ubuntu on my SP3 for years. The wireless drivers were a bitch and required patching the kernel before 4.4 but other than that everything worked nicely. It was just a matter of time getting the kinks fixed.
sxates 9y ago
I just can't see anyone inside MS being able to make the case that they should put effort into making their laptops run anything other than Windows. But I agree with you. I tried to set up Linux on my Surface Book, but couldn't get the keyboard to work :/
- chaostheory 9y ago
  Still inside Windows, but it's a good start https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/commandline/wsl/about https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/commandline/wsl/about Personally I prefer this over a vm, dual boot or running Linux exclusively
  - dhimes 9y ago
    This is excellent, but I've also had great luck with recent versions of VirtualBox.
    - eropple 9y ago
      VirtualBox has improved over time, but it's still a battery vacuum.
wasd 9y ago
Have you tried Bash on Windows? Been using it lightly (still dual boot) but it's pretty good experience.
- majewsky 9y ago
  Linux was brought up because grand-grandparent says it can only run stuff from the Windows Store, so I'm pretty sure that WSL is out of the question.
  - kbenson 9y ago
    Sibling comments note that it says you can upgrade to to Windows 10 Pro for $50, or for free until 2018. The free upgrade seems to be possibly linked to this deal (it's referenced in the store page), but the details take you to the Windows S page which notes that upgrading from Windows 10 S to Windows 10 Pro is a normal feature of Windows 10 S (although it notes "affordably", so there is usually a cost).
    - TazeTSchnitzel 9y ago
      Microsoft has let you easily change Windows edition for some years now. It was called Windows Anytime Upgrade in 7, it dates back to Vista. Unusual that the Windows RT-alike supports it, though, but perhaps that's because Windows 8 and Windows RT were mutually exclusive in their hardware support (x86 vs ARM), and this isn't.
    - flukus 9y ago
      For anyone considering running linux this type of nickle-and-diming is more likely to push them over the edge than to stay with windows. If you stay with windows you get more of this kind of thing, if you jump ship then you never have to worry again.
      - pjmlp 9y ago
        The wonders of using software without paying for it.
yoandy 9y ago
I am agree with that, I won't buy it just because it comes with Windows.
tedmiston 9y ago
If… Big words for a machine no one has used yet. I look forward to the reviews but it doesn't look like a MacBook killer to me. Maybe it competes with the base level MacBook. But it clearly doesn't touch the MacBook Pro.

this would be my dream laptop if it ran linux out of the box. I really wish a linux laptop with this type of design was put out for an affordable price, I really think its a major opportunity for a large business market there. I think there is a lot of room for improvement on the "librem' laptops...

haswell 9y ago
The Dell XPS 13 mostly fits the bill in terms of design. The Linux support is excellent.
- exclusiv 9y ago
  I second that. Love my XPS developer edition.
- eikenberry 9y ago
  They look great except for the battery, it sucks.
  - 72deluxe 9y ago
    Is that Linux' fault though instead of the Dell itself? I mean, Mac OS has app nap and I noticed the difference on the same hardware after OSX 10.whatever introduced it (I got an hour extra battery life!). When I reboot the same hardware into Windows, I get worse battery life than under Mac OS, obviously doing different things and an entirely different architecture (RPC, COM calls etc.) but I know it's not the hardware at fault. Is Linux architecture at fault for the Dell? Just curious. I wonder if there is significantly different battery life for the same machine running different OS (eg. Windows vs Linux).
    - eikenberry 9y ago
      I was talking raw WHr rating, not power usage. Linux's mediocre power management is one of the reasons I put extra emphasis on the battery when shopping for a laptop. My t450s w/ the 6 cell external has 72WHr vs the XPS13 of that time had 54WHr. Plus my Lenovo battery is hot-swappable. They have improved upon this some as the current XPS13 has 60WHr. But they still are lacking in this area.
lorenzhs 9y ago
If you're willing to comprimise on price, the new ThinkPad X1 Carbon is a fantastic Linux business laptop.
- noatime 9y ago
  The ThinkPad X1 Carbon had just been "coreboot" supported ( so it will be soon the libreboot best/newest one ? ) : that's one big add-point to Linux . ( Sorry if I misunderstood something , it's my first post and I'm not so geeky :) , english too is not my native language )
  - lorenzhs 9y ago
    The model supported by coreboot is the first generation X1 Carbon, which is 4-5 years old now. I'm talking about the 5th generation, which has only been available for a few months.
    - noatime 9y ago
      @lorezhs : Thanks.
    - city41 9y ago
      Any idea if the trackpad is better? I have three Thinkpads (including the previous Carbon), all running Linux, and the trackpads are just terrible. I'm spoiled because I'm used to the MacBook trackpad.
      - dm319 9y ago
        the 5th gen uses the microsoft precision standard (i.e. sends the raw input to the OS to interpret) - reported to be as good as the surface book, and close to macbook.
      - lorenzhs 9y ago
        I don't use it (I'm a big fan of the trackpoint), but the trackpad's surface feels very pleasant. Can't comment on the accuracy, I probably wouldn't even be able to properly judge or compare it to the MacBook, but I've heard good things from other people.

amiga-workbench 9y ago

It never happened with the other Surfaces, I bought a Pro 2 hoping for some Linux support. It never panned out (Marvell wireless chipset had no drivers) I ended up going back to an old ThinkPad.

0wl3x 9y ago
I've been running Ubuntu on my SP3 for years. The wireless drivers were a bitch and required patching the kernel before 4.4 but other than that everything worked nicely. It was just a matter of time getting the kinks fixed.

sxates 9y ago

I just can't see anyone inside MS being able to make the case that they should put effort into making their laptops run anything other than Windows. But I agree with you. I tried to set up Linux on my Surface Book, but couldn't get the keyboard to work :/

chaostheory 9y ago
Still inside Windows, but it's a good start https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/commandline/wsl/about https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/commandline/wsl/about Personally I prefer this over a vm, dual boot or running Linux exclusively
- dhimes 9y ago
  This is excellent, but I've also had great luck with recent versions of VirtualBox.
  - eropple 9y ago
    VirtualBox has improved over time, but it's still a battery vacuum.

wasd 9y ago

Have you tried Bash on Windows? Been using it lightly (still dual boot) but it's pretty good experience.

majewsky 9y ago
Linux was brought up because grand-grandparent says it can only run stuff from the Windows Store, so I'm pretty sure that WSL is out of the question.
- kbenson 9y ago
  Sibling comments note that it says you can upgrade to to Windows 10 Pro for $50, or for free until 2018. The free upgrade seems to be possibly linked to this deal (it's referenced in the store page), but the details take you to the Windows S page which notes that upgrading from Windows 10 S to Windows 10 Pro is a normal feature of Windows 10 S (although it notes "affordably", so there is usually a cost).
  - TazeTSchnitzel 9y ago
    Microsoft has let you easily change Windows edition for some years now. It was called Windows Anytime Upgrade in 7, it dates back to Vista. Unusual that the Windows RT-alike supports it, though, but perhaps that's because Windows 8 and Windows RT were mutually exclusive in their hardware support (x86 vs ARM), and this isn't.
  - flukus 9y ago
    For anyone considering running linux this type of nickle-and-diming is more likely to push them over the edge than to stay with windows. If you stay with windows you get more of this kind of thing, if you jump ship then you never have to worry again.
    - pjmlp 9y ago
      The wonders of using software without paying for it.

yoandy 9y ago

I am agree with that, I won't buy it just because it comes with Windows.

tedmiston 9y ago

If… Big words for a machine no one has used yet. I look forward to the reviews but it doesn't look like a MacBook killer to me. Maybe it competes with the base level MacBook. But it clearly doesn't touch the MacBook Pro.