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What's got me confused is the % of men who seem to be surprised by this. It's business as usual for women. If you see a woman with a 5-10 year long engineerin

What's got me confused is the % of men who seem to be surprised by this. It's business as usual for women. If you see a woman with a 5-10 year long engineerin career, please recognize the determination it takes to make it that far.

BlackjackCF 9y ago
Ready for there to be a whole bunch of comments about how it's easier to get hired as female engineer because of diversity quotas...
- e1g 9y ago
  > please recognize the determination it takes to make it that far > ...it's easier to get hired as female engineer because of diversity quotas... I had seen both of these play out through my partner. She was consistently invited to interview for positions significantly ahead of her experience at the time. She declined these offers on ethical grounds, but it did seem that the surface area of opportunities was expanded because to her gender and age. Conversely, when she did choose a new role well within her bulletproof expertise, she would be systematically harassed and undermine by otherwise well-meaning people. For example, she's had a dotted-line manager suggest a threesome (in writing, over WhatsApp), offers to work from the client's office because "we need a girl there" (this would make the company look better), and changes to her briefings to sound "...maybe less you" (she had spent years doing conflict resolutions and suicide hotline counseling). Both points can be true at the same time: women in tech (or finance, or law, or consulting) may have more options presented, but almost none of them are healthy. Working as a female seems to provide the same advantages as going out as a disabled - yes, you have special parking offers and can get to the front door quicker, but no-one will swap places with you.
whywhywhywhy 9y ago
>please recognize the determination it takes to make it that far. Why do you say this? Isn't it more likely that many women prefer to take on the role of a mother, and if they've been in a high paid engineering position they likely have a partner who can provide for both of them while they raise children. Slaving away at an engineering career doesn't seem all that appealing after you've had the rewarding experience of raising your children.
- rayiner 9y ago
  Raising kids is rewarding at a high level, but involves a lot of drudgery. I don't want to knock those who enjoy that stuff, but at the same time I feel like it's important for parents to know that you can love your kids while acknowledging that the day-to-day of parenting is often a mind-numbing low-level chore. The idea that it's intrinsically fulfilling for everyone or even most people is one invented by society to placate women who were historically excluded from the work force. E.g. My mom and my wife's mom both left professional careers to raise kids, and both are quite bitter about it.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
maverick_iceman 9y ago
Evidence?
iagovar 9y ago
Can I get this recognition if I get into nursing?

BlackjackCF 9y ago

Ready for there to be a whole bunch of comments about how it's easier to get hired as female engineer because of diversity quotas...

e1g 9y ago
> please recognize the determination it takes to make it that far > ...it's easier to get hired as female engineer because of diversity quotas... I had seen both of these play out through my partner. She was consistently invited to interview for positions significantly ahead of her experience at the time. She declined these offers on ethical grounds, but it did seem that the surface area of opportunities was expanded because to her gender and age. Conversely, when she did choose a new role well within her bulletproof expertise, she would be systematically harassed and undermine by otherwise well-meaning people. For example, she's had a dotted-line manager suggest a threesome (in writing, over WhatsApp), offers to work from the client's office because "we need a girl there" (this would make the company look better), and changes to her briefings to sound "...maybe less you" (she had spent years doing conflict resolutions and suicide hotline counseling). Both points can be true at the same time: women in tech (or finance, or law, or consulting) may have more options presented, but almost none of them are healthy. Working as a female seems to provide the same advantages as going out as a disabled - yes, you have special parking offers and can get to the front door quicker, but no-one will swap places with you.

whywhywhywhy 9y ago

>please recognize the determination it takes to make it that far. Why do you say this? Isn't it more likely that many women prefer to take on the role of a mother, and if they've been in a high paid engineering position they likely have a partner who can provide for both of them while they raise children. Slaving away at an engineering career doesn't seem all that appealing after you've had the rewarding experience of raising your children.

rayiner 9y ago
Raising kids is rewarding at a high level, but involves a lot of drudgery. I don't want to knock those who enjoy that stuff, but at the same time I feel like it's important for parents to know that you can love your kids while acknowledging that the day-to-day of parenting is often a mind-numbing low-level chore. The idea that it's intrinsically fulfilling for everyone or even most people is one invented by society to placate women who were historically excluded from the work force. E.g. My mom and my wife's mom both left professional careers to raise kids, and both are quite bitter about it.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

maverick_iceman 9y ago

Evidence?

iagovar 9y ago

Can I get this recognition if I get into nursing?