6 ms·

Given the target market (schools) I think not being able to install downloaded software is only a good thing. Also, did you see the performance demo? 10s was s

by pawadu 9y ago

Given the target market (schools) I think not being able to install downloaded software is only a good thing. Also, did you see the performance demo? 10s was significantly faster than 10 Pro. Not sure about the $999 for the cheapest model however. Does it include an Office 365 subscription?

rocky1138 9y ago
> Given the target market (schools) I think not being able to install downloaded software is only a good thing. Except that giving kids unfettered access to their computers allows them to flourish. See: BBC Micro, Raspberry Pi, Apple ][, the list goes on.
- tashoecraft 9y ago
  Except that having each kid able to brick their computer leads to significant problems for IT in debugging everyone's computer. As well as letting them move away from educational material extremely easily. I agree that great things can happen when kids can truly explore their computer and take away the 'magic', but just handing all kids a laptop and having them go wild is not the way to do it. I don't what is, to be fair.
  - marcus_holmes 9y ago
    Handing them a laptop and having them go wild is exactly the way to do it. If they brick it, they have to work out how to fix it. As one of the kids who was lucky enough to get a BBC Micro, I had zero support. No-one else in my family even knew how to turn it on. No teacher at my school could support me because none of them knew how it worked either. If I broke it, I had to fix it. And no Stack Overflow, so no code to copy-paste. I had to go back to first principles every time and work out what went wrong and how I could make it go right. Best education you can give anyone.
    - valuearb 9y ago
      This would have been great for you and me, but 95% of students won't even try. My kids barely know how the TV works, and have zero interest in learning how computers work, despite my efforts.
      - dkhenry 9y ago
        your kids know how the TV works better then you do. If you don't realize this you're not paying attention. Just because they don't care to write web apps doesn't mean they don't know what they are doing.
        lccarrasco 9y ago
        I'm sorry can you expand on that? I don't know how could average kids understand AC/DC Power, Signal transmission, different display types, etc better than average adults, especially those interested in technology, maybe I'm missing something from your comment?
        dkhenry 9y ago
        I can, see you took my statement of "works" to mean they could explain to you why the Higgs field allows particles to have mass and then extrapolate that up to explain the existence of a TV. I simply meant they know how to use it for its desired purpose, better then most adults do.
        valuearb 9y ago
        If they did they wouldn't ask me to turn it on and find their shows for them. I finally had to put my foot down and now they are starting to do it againthemsekbes and maybe soon will be better than me at it. But they still won't know or care how their computer works, or how to program.
    - germinalphrase 9y ago
      Which is all well and good until my students aren't able to - you know - do basic educational tasks because their computer 'is broken'. If I - as a teacher - can do an immediate 'restore to neutral state' with core educational files and programs retained then by all means open them up. Otherwise, I have to be curmudgeon and say that the existence of the computer in the classroom is to more effectively complete educational tasks. If having an open system gets in the way of that then the system should not be open.
- cwyers 9y ago
  It allows some of them to flourish. The rest of them just wreck the computer.
  - dkhenry 9y ago
    Right its important to protect them from anything bad that might happen to them.
- w1ntermute 9y ago
  A minute fraction of kids will use the ability to install downloaded software to flourish. The vast majority of children will just download games, malware, and porn. Society should be more honest with itself about the simple reality that the vast majority of children are not and will not ever be special.
  - humanrebar 9y ago
    > A minute fraction of kids will use the ability to install downloaded software to flourish. ...and a minute fraction will play on the football field or perform in the school theater.
    - drzaiusapelord 9y ago
      and that's why we don't assign ballet shoes and football pads to every single student and instead have try-outs.
      - dhimes 9y ago
        But some schools do mandate some form of athletic participation.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > The vast majority of children will just download games, malware, and porn. They'll just use the browser for porn, no need to install third-party software.
    - toddwprice 9y ago
      For the vast majority of kids these machines are replacing textbooks, and aren't supposed to be tools for learning computer science. That said, you can also learn programming with nothing more than a browser.
  - captainmuon 9y ago
    Maybe controversial, but I first got internet access in 1999 as a 15-year old. And yes, that meant games, malware, and porn. But I did flourish, not despite all that, but also because of all that. Games are now a rich part of our culture. They can tell great stories, and are not "better" or "worse" then a book per se. If you enjoy them in moderation, and go outside enough, games are a great thing. And LAN parties were a great pastime. Malware, hacking tools, warez were one gateway for me into serious programming. I downloaded Visual Basic or Visual Studio and proceeded to write a trojan, to make friends' CD tray open and close on LAN parties. And porn? Grown ups and parents don't like to hear it, but as a teen I of course enjoyed that there was porn on the internet. It didn't hurt me, and I've had healthy, normal relationships in my life.
- EpicEng 9y ago
  some kids, and certainly not the majority.
- zitterbewegung 9y ago
  Microsoft developed a solution that would allow you to program a BBC microbit without downloading software . See https://www.touchdevelop.com/microbit https://www.touchdevelop.com/microbit
- jtnews 9y ago
  At $189 for the computer they can afford to have a computer that is managed and always works and a bbc micro or raspberry pi for the student to hack on and tear up.
- ksk 9y ago
  What makes unfettered access a necessary condition? Seems like kids flourish in all sorts of environments.
devopsproject 9y ago
> Given the target market (schools) The target market is students, not schools. They want kids to get a windows computer instead of a mac before they head off to college
72deluxe 9y ago
I wonder why 10S is faster than Pro? It can't be doing anything significantly different - perhaps some .NET runtime startup cache or bypassing many of the Win32 APIs regarding RPC? I am genuinely curious - ideas?
- my123 9y ago
  It's more that OEMs(and the user) can't do shit on them. (and also not having to sync classic app profiles with AD)

by pawadu 9y ago

rocky1138 9y ago

> Given the target market (schools) I think not being able to install downloaded software is only a good thing. Except that giving kids unfettered access to their computers allows them to flourish. See: BBC Micro, Raspberry Pi, Apple ][, the list goes on.

tashoecraft 9y ago
Except that having each kid able to brick their computer leads to significant problems for IT in debugging everyone's computer. As well as letting them move away from educational material extremely easily. I agree that great things can happen when kids can truly explore their computer and take away the 'magic', but just handing all kids a laptop and having them go wild is not the way to do it. I don't what is, to be fair.
- marcus_holmes 9y ago
  Handing them a laptop and having them go wild is exactly the way to do it. If they brick it, they have to work out how to fix it. As one of the kids who was lucky enough to get a BBC Micro, I had zero support. No-one else in my family even knew how to turn it on. No teacher at my school could support me because none of them knew how it worked either. If I broke it, I had to fix it. And no Stack Overflow, so no code to copy-paste. I had to go back to first principles every time and work out what went wrong and how I could make it go right. Best education you can give anyone.
  - valuearb 9y ago
    This would have been great for you and me, but 95% of students won't even try. My kids barely know how the TV works, and have zero interest in learning how computers work, despite my efforts.
    - dkhenry 9y ago
      your kids know how the TV works better then you do. If you don't realize this you're not paying attention. Just because they don't care to write web apps doesn't mean they don't know what they are doing.
      - lccarrasco 9y ago
        I'm sorry can you expand on that? I don't know how could average kids understand AC/DC Power, Signal transmission, different display types, etc better than average adults, especially those interested in technology, maybe I'm missing something from your comment?
        dkhenry 9y ago
        I can, see you took my statement of "works" to mean they could explain to you why the Higgs field allows particles to have mass and then extrapolate that up to explain the existence of a TV. I simply meant they know how to use it for its desired purpose, better then most adults do.
      - valuearb 9y ago
        If they did they wouldn't ask me to turn it on and find their shows for them. I finally had to put my foot down and now they are starting to do it againthemsekbes and maybe soon will be better than me at it. But they still won't know or care how their computer works, or how to program.
  - germinalphrase 9y ago
    Which is all well and good until my students aren't able to - you know - do basic educational tasks because their computer 'is broken'. If I - as a teacher - can do an immediate 'restore to neutral state' with core educational files and programs retained then by all means open them up. Otherwise, I have to be curmudgeon and say that the existence of the computer in the classroom is to more effectively complete educational tasks. If having an open system gets in the way of that then the system should not be open.
cwyers 9y ago
It allows some of them to flourish. The rest of them just wreck the computer.
- dkhenry 9y ago
  Right its important to protect them from anything bad that might happen to them.
w1ntermute 9y ago
A minute fraction of kids will use the ability to install downloaded software to flourish. The vast majority of children will just download games, malware, and porn. Society should be more honest with itself about the simple reality that the vast majority of children are not and will not ever be special.
- humanrebar 9y ago
  > A minute fraction of kids will use the ability to install downloaded software to flourish. ...and a minute fraction will play on the football field or perform in the school theater.
  - drzaiusapelord 9y ago
    and that's why we don't assign ballet shoes and football pads to every single student and instead have try-outs.
    - dhimes 9y ago
      But some schools do mandate some form of athletic participation.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > The vast majority of children will just download games, malware, and porn. They'll just use the browser for porn, no need to install third-party software.
  - toddwprice 9y ago
    For the vast majority of kids these machines are replacing textbooks, and aren't supposed to be tools for learning computer science. That said, you can also learn programming with nothing more than a browser.
- captainmuon 9y ago
  Maybe controversial, but I first got internet access in 1999 as a 15-year old. And yes, that meant games, malware, and porn. But I did flourish, not despite all that, but also because of all that. Games are now a rich part of our culture. They can tell great stories, and are not "better" or "worse" then a book per se. If you enjoy them in moderation, and go outside enough, games are a great thing. And LAN parties were a great pastime. Malware, hacking tools, warez were one gateway for me into serious programming. I downloaded Visual Basic or Visual Studio and proceeded to write a trojan, to make friends' CD tray open and close on LAN parties. And porn? Grown ups and parents don't like to hear it, but as a teen I of course enjoyed that there was porn on the internet. It didn't hurt me, and I've had healthy, normal relationships in my life.
EpicEng 9y ago
some kids, and certainly not the majority.
zitterbewegung 9y ago
Microsoft developed a solution that would allow you to program a BBC microbit without downloading software . See https://www.touchdevelop.com/microbit https://www.touchdevelop.com/microbit
jtnews 9y ago
At $189 for the computer they can afford to have a computer that is managed and always works and a bbc micro or raspberry pi for the student to hack on and tear up.
ksk 9y ago
What makes unfettered access a necessary condition? Seems like kids flourish in all sorts of environments.

devopsproject 9y ago

> Given the target market (schools) The target market is students, not schools. They want kids to get a windows computer instead of a mac before they head off to college

72deluxe 9y ago

I wonder why 10S is faster than Pro? It can't be doing anything significantly different - perhaps some .NET runtime startup cache or bypassing many of the Win32 APIs regarding RPC? I am genuinely curious - ideas?

my123 9y ago
It's more that OEMs(and the user) can't do shit on them. (and also not having to sync classic app profiles with AD)