4 ms·

Apart from the legal issues, I am extremely unconvinced that having the government suddenly take over all the equipment which is currently being used to fix it

by hugh3 16y ago

Apart from the legal issues, I am extremely unconvinced that having the government suddenly take over all the equipment which is currently being used to fix it would have done any good. Handing over control to someone who has no idea what they're doing rarely fixes problems. It does seem to me that the US government could be doing more with the cleanup, though, instead of just standing on the sidelines and shouting "Hey BP! Fix this faster!" I mean, if I caused an accident on the freeway and crashed into a truck, causing toxic waste to spill out across twelve lanes of the interstate, would the Highway Patrol show up and tell me to clean up the mess I made? Hell no, they'd use government resources to clean the mess up as quickly as possible, and worry about punishing me for my negligence later.

hga 16y ago
Could do more as in "let BP and Louisiana dredge sand to build barrier islands in front of vulnerable marshes"? I just can't figure out what's up with Obama's pocket veto of that.... Or as we recently learned, turning the Netherlands down flat when they offered to come over and help. I think I read that offers by 13 nations have been refused.
- guelo 16y ago
  source?
  - hga 16y ago
    Please, in the era of Google et. al.: gulf oil spill dredge sand barrier islands refusal Dutch gulf oil spill help refused (OK, it did take me two tries to get a good Google first page on the former.)
    - guelo 16y ago
      OK, you made me google it myself because this all sounded very suspicious. When I googled the dredge stuff the first link was from RedState, a hyper-partisan republican blog, so that made me more suspicious. I found some info such as this, http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/05/coast_guard_approves_building.html http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/05/co..., where the Corps of Engineers has approved one such project to test the idea. And I found info about BP pushing back on paying for these projects. But I definitely did not find anything about an "Obama pocket veto". Except for Republican propaganda sites. The Dutch refusal stuff, after wading through all the republican propaganda blogs, apparently has to do with some law I didn't understand.
      - techsupporter 16y ago
        The refusal of Dutch help is due to section of the Merchant Marine Act of 1920[1], also colloquially known as the "Jones Act." Basically, like Wikipedia says, anything going by water between two US ports, or to/from the same US port, with no stops at an international port in between, must go by way of US-flagged ships. The Dutch ships that can do the cleaning would obviously be going from Louisiana to the Gulf and then back Louisiana, or from Louisiana to the Gulf and then to Mississippi, etc. That would be a violation of the Jones Act. There have been waivers[2] granted in the past, but very rarely. Some are advocating for a Jones Act waiver[3][4], but that's considered unlikely, due to a mix of politics, business, and possible stubbornness. 1 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_Marine_Act_of_1920 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_Marine_Act_of_1920 2 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_Marine_Act_of_1920#Waivers_of_Shipping_Act_provisions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_Marine_Act_of_1920#Wai... 3 - http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19655 http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19... 4 - http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/steffy/7043272.html http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/steffy/7043272....
        hga 16y ago
        To use a quote frequently attributed to the founder of the Democratic party, "One man with courage makes a majority." (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson#Misattributed http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson#Misattributed) As [2] notes, waivers have been used as recently as Katrina for national emergencies, which this most certainly is. It's hard for me to imagine that any pressure group could politically get away with resisting a long term waiver if the spotlight was turned onto them, and it's hard to see why they'd do it in the first place, since this is a unique situation where there's more than enough work to go around for all. But let's cut to the chase, has Team Obama even tried?
      - hga 16y ago
        And just how long did the Corps of Engineers take to approve one 2 mile long barrier island test? "Obama pocket veto" is my term for his sitting on the direct request from Republican governor Jindal for weeks (more than a month as I recall) before even approving that one "test". You may dislike the truth as presented by "hyper-partisan republican blog[s]", but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist or that half or more of the nation isn't listening to those sorts of sources. Or do you expect the NYT et. al. to honestly and quickly report on Team Obama's failings? You might want to listen to the Ragin' Cajun James Carville on this general subject (full disclosure, I'm half Cajun myself and my mom grew up pretty close to the coast) for another partisan view.

by hugh3 16y ago

hga 16y ago

Could do more as in "let BP and Louisiana dredge sand to build barrier islands in front of vulnerable marshes"? I just can't figure out what's up with Obama's pocket veto of that.... Or as we recently learned, turning the Netherlands down flat when they offered to come over and help. I think I read that offers by 13 nations have been refused.

guelo 16y ago
source?
- hga 16y ago
  Please, in the era of Google et. al.: gulf oil spill dredge sand barrier islands refusal Dutch gulf oil spill help refused (OK, it did take me two tries to get a good Google first page on the former.)
  - guelo 16y ago
    OK, you made me google it myself because this all sounded very suspicious. When I googled the dredge stuff the first link was from RedState, a hyper-partisan republican blog, so that made me more suspicious. I found some info such as this, http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/05/coast_guard_approves_building.html http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/05/co..., where the Corps of Engineers has approved one such project to test the idea. And I found info about BP pushing back on paying for these projects. But I definitely did not find anything about an "Obama pocket veto". Except for Republican propaganda sites. The Dutch refusal stuff, after wading through all the republican propaganda blogs, apparently has to do with some law I didn't understand.
    - techsupporter 16y ago
      The refusal of Dutch help is due to section of the Merchant Marine Act of 1920[1], also colloquially known as the "Jones Act." Basically, like Wikipedia says, anything going by water between two US ports, or to/from the same US port, with no stops at an international port in between, must go by way of US-flagged ships. The Dutch ships that can do the cleaning would obviously be going from Louisiana to the Gulf and then back Louisiana, or from Louisiana to the Gulf and then to Mississippi, etc. That would be a violation of the Jones Act. There have been waivers[2] granted in the past, but very rarely. Some are advocating for a Jones Act waiver[3][4], but that's considered unlikely, due to a mix of politics, business, and possible stubbornness. 1 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_Marine_Act_of_1920 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_Marine_Act_of_1920 2 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_Marine_Act_of_1920#Waivers_of_Shipping_Act_provisions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_Marine_Act_of_1920#Wai... 3 - http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19655 http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19... 4 - http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/steffy/7043272.html http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/steffy/7043272....
      - hga 16y ago
        To use a quote frequently attributed to the founder of the Democratic party, "One man with courage makes a majority." (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson#Misattributed http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson#Misattributed) As [2] notes, waivers have been used as recently as Katrina for national emergencies, which this most certainly is. It's hard for me to imagine that any pressure group could politically get away with resisting a long term waiver if the spotlight was turned onto them, and it's hard to see why they'd do it in the first place, since this is a unique situation where there's more than enough work to go around for all. But let's cut to the chase, has Team Obama even tried?
    - hga 16y ago
      And just how long did the Corps of Engineers take to approve one 2 mile long barrier island test? "Obama pocket veto" is my term for his sitting on the direct request from Republican governor Jindal for weeks (more than a month as I recall) before even approving that one "test". You may dislike the truth as presented by "hyper-partisan republican blog[s]", but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist or that half or more of the nation isn't listening to those sorts of sources. Or do you expect the NYT et. al. to honestly and quickly report on Team Obama's failings? You might want to listen to the Ragin' Cajun James Carville on this general subject (full disclosure, I'm half Cajun myself and my mom grew up pretty close to the coast) for another partisan view.