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I fully agree. For simple things ORMs can be useful (very simple) anything else they get in the way. Firstly, have to write out the SQL, then convert it to the

• gregmac 9y ago
  > Firstly, have to write out the SQL, then convert it to the ORM format Ha, you know I had actually forgotten about that, but I have done that many times. You model the data, write some queries to essentially test out the structure/data/concepts, then instead of pasting the queries into your code, you spend another bunch of time trying to tell your ORM how to come up with the query you pretty much already have. Even if you're using a very well-tested, robust ORM that flawlessly handles your use case and you're an absolute expert at using it, it's still more work than just pasting a query you already have.
• flukus 9y ago
  > Firstly, have to write out the SQL, then convert it to the ORM format, only to find the ORM doesn't support something you are using, so you rewrite the query in a more long winded way, then convert it to the ORM. Or you could avoid the conversion step entirely. If the ORM is useful 90% of the time and in the way 10% of the time then use different tools for the 10%.