5 ms·

Just so we're all on the same page here: anything with the phrase "A modest proposal" in the title is satire[1]. The main point is that the symbolic and ceremo

by lmkg 16y ago

Just so we're all on the same page here: anything with the phrase "A modest proposal" in the title is satire[1]. The main point is that the symbolic and ceremonial responsibilities of reflecting the character and attitude of the nation fall on someone with a real job, while most other countries have a separation of concerns. On the other hand, the United States has a long-standing tradition of treating the government as an enemy rather than an extension of national identity, so we wouldn't actually have that much for such a figurehead to do. The closest that you get is the First Lady taking up A Cause and enacting change at the philanthropic and national-awareness level. [1] The original "Modest Proposal" put forth the idea of eating Irish babies as a solution to feeding the poor in London, and is regarded as one of the finest satires in the English tradition. http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal

maxharris 16y ago
Governments that deviate from their proper purpose of protecting individual rights become an outright enemy of their citizens when they supress speech to the point that no one can speak to change things for the better. It is an understatement to say that this American view of government is just a longstanding tradition; see quotes by Jefferson and other founders.
- Towle_ 16y ago
  See quotes? See Declaration of Independence. For anyone who hasn't read the full document in a while, a close read probably the best way you could spend the next 10 minutes of your life. http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/index.htm http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/index.htm (maxharris2: just in case clarification is necessary, let the record show that my rhetorical "counterpoint" should be read as a literal "hell yeah!")
  - julius_geezer 16y ago
    OK, provided that we are clear on the distinction between state rights and individual ones as understood today. Most of the colonies went into the revolution with established churches; all states but Massachusetts reached the first census with slavery legal.
  - eru 16y ago
    > For anyone who hasn't read the full document in a while, a close read probably the best way you could spend the next 10 minutes of your life. Why? What makes the U.S. special?
    - riffraff 16y ago
      I was going to jest "the pursuit of happiness!". Then, a little investigation proved that it is, ironically, also in the declaration of indipendence Ho Chi Min wrote for the democratic republic of vietnam. Well, I'm OT but I felt it was interesting to share this :)
      - hammerdr 16y ago
        It's not ironic. Ho Chi Min was literally inspired by the United States. It's a tragedy that we (the US) and Ho Chi Min became enemies. I'm not a proponent of communism, but Ho Chi Min's Vietnam could have had great potential due to his charisma, knowledge and 'founder' status among his own people.
        arethuza 16y ago
        Didn't the United States more or less have to choose between France and Vietnam as allies?
    - count 16y ago
      What other country went from 0-super power in such a short time? While it isn't necessarily the BEST or RIGHT or anything like that, I think it's pretty straight forward to claim the U.S. is 'special'.
      - eru 16y ago
        > What other country went from 0-super power in such a short time? Maybe that's a point. Though, here are some other examples of possible quick rises: Germany past 1971-unification? France after the Revolution shaked up the the country and dragged it kicking-and-screaming into the century of the fruitbat? Japan after its defeat in WWII. And of course, if only rise to super power counts, look at Britain and how they started the original industrial revolution there. (Though, what counts as "short time"?)

by lmkg 16y ago

maxharris 16y ago

Governments that deviate from their proper purpose of protecting individual rights become an outright enemy of their citizens when they supress speech to the point that no one can speak to change things for the better. It is an understatement to say that this American view of government is just a longstanding tradition; see quotes by Jefferson and other founders.

Towle_ 16y ago
See quotes? See Declaration of Independence. For anyone who hasn't read the full document in a while, a close read probably the best way you could spend the next 10 minutes of your life. http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/index.htm http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/index.htm (maxharris2: just in case clarification is necessary, let the record show that my rhetorical "counterpoint" should be read as a literal "hell yeah!")
- julius_geezer 16y ago
  OK, provided that we are clear on the distinction between state rights and individual ones as understood today. Most of the colonies went into the revolution with established churches; all states but Massachusetts reached the first census with slavery legal.
- eru 16y ago
  > For anyone who hasn't read the full document in a while, a close read probably the best way you could spend the next 10 minutes of your life. Why? What makes the U.S. special?
  - riffraff 16y ago
    I was going to jest "the pursuit of happiness!". Then, a little investigation proved that it is, ironically, also in the declaration of indipendence Ho Chi Min wrote for the democratic republic of vietnam. Well, I'm OT but I felt it was interesting to share this :)
    - hammerdr 16y ago
      It's not ironic. Ho Chi Min was literally inspired by the United States. It's a tragedy that we (the US) and Ho Chi Min became enemies. I'm not a proponent of communism, but Ho Chi Min's Vietnam could have had great potential due to his charisma, knowledge and 'founder' status among his own people.
      - arethuza 16y ago
        Didn't the United States more or less have to choose between France and Vietnam as allies?
  - count 16y ago
    What other country went from 0-super power in such a short time? While it isn't necessarily the BEST or RIGHT or anything like that, I think it's pretty straight forward to claim the U.S. is 'special'.
    - eru 16y ago
      > What other country went from 0-super power in such a short time? Maybe that's a point. Though, here are some other examples of possible quick rises: Germany past 1971-unification? France after the Revolution shaked up the the country and dragged it kicking-and-screaming into the century of the fruitbat? Japan after its defeat in WWII. And of course, if only rise to super power counts, look at Britain and how they started the original industrial revolution there. (Though, what counts as "short time"?)