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There are so many more alternatives for the JVM these days - languages like Scala, Kotlin and Clojure - I wonder why these companies do not invest in the future

by hipjim 10y ago

There are so many more alternatives for the JVM these days - languages like Scala, Kotlin and Clojure - I wonder why these companies do not invest in the future and still push the old Java around.

jdmichal 10y ago
Jigsaw is about the JVM, not the Java language. It would affect all JVM languages equally.
plandis 10y ago
I too wonder why IBM would not invest in rewriting their millions of lines of code in some other language
- akerro 10y ago
  Rewrite in Rust!
  - tetha 10y ago
    Seriously. Look at how google handles the Python2 to Python3 gap. They built a python2-go bridge and they are probably rewriting everything python2 in go. Make something expensive enough, and companies with resources will react.
    - paulmd 10y ago
      The truly hilarious thing about the Python 3 switchover is that they didn't take the opportunity to remove the GIL at the same time they were making all the other breaking changes. I guess rewriting all your code is one thing but rewriting it under the assumption of concurrency is just a bridge too far.
      - brianwawok 10y ago
        Or like this is post 7,345 where someone has to explain for many apps the GIL literally does nothing bad for you. Not all apps need concurrent threads in the same process.
      - scott_s 10y ago
        Removing the GIL has nothing to do with making breaking changes in the language. It's also an enormously more complicated task, one which hundreds (thousands?) of developers have spent time on over a decade (two?). I think you might be thinking that the impediment to removing the GIL is user code. It is not. The impediment is that CPython - the standard Python runtime - was designed around using the GIL, and it's extraordinarily hard to remove it and still meet the existing single-thread performance goals. There are also ancillary issues surrounding user code - particularly modules written in C, I believe - but the runtime itself is the biggest issue.
- kev009 10y ago
  IBM has staked heavily in Swift already considering how early it is https://github.com/ibm-swift https://github.com/ibm-swift
edko 10y ago
All three can already compile to JavaScript. Scala and Kotlin have early state projects that compile to native.
Tharkun 10y ago
Because Java is a fine and mature language?

by hipjim 10y ago

There are so many more alternatives for the JVM these days - languages like Scala, Kotlin and Clojure - I wonder why these companies do not invest in the future and still push the old Java around.

jdmichal 10y ago

Jigsaw is about the JVM, not the Java language. It would affect all JVM languages equally.

plandis 10y ago

I too wonder why IBM would not invest in rewriting their millions of lines of code in some other language

akerro 10y ago
Rewrite in Rust!
- tetha 10y ago
  Seriously. Look at how google handles the Python2 to Python3 gap. They built a python2-go bridge and they are probably rewriting everything python2 in go. Make something expensive enough, and companies with resources will react.
  - paulmd 10y ago
    The truly hilarious thing about the Python 3 switchover is that they didn't take the opportunity to remove the GIL at the same time they were making all the other breaking changes. I guess rewriting all your code is one thing but rewriting it under the assumption of concurrency is just a bridge too far.
    - brianwawok 10y ago
      Or like this is post 7,345 where someone has to explain for many apps the GIL literally does nothing bad for you. Not all apps need concurrent threads in the same process.
    - scott_s 10y ago
      Removing the GIL has nothing to do with making breaking changes in the language. It's also an enormously more complicated task, one which hundreds (thousands?) of developers have spent time on over a decade (two?). I think you might be thinking that the impediment to removing the GIL is user code. It is not. The impediment is that CPython - the standard Python runtime - was designed around using the GIL, and it's extraordinarily hard to remove it and still meet the existing single-thread performance goals. There are also ancillary issues surrounding user code - particularly modules written in C, I believe - but the runtime itself is the biggest issue.
kev009 10y ago
IBM has staked heavily in Swift already considering how early it is https://github.com/ibm-swift https://github.com/ibm-swift

edko 10y ago

All three can already compile to JavaScript. Scala and Kotlin have early state projects that compile to native.

Tharkun 10y ago

Because Java is a fine and mature language?