4 ms·

I agree. I also think Apple is treating the iOS ecosystem like a video game console rather than a computer. If people looked at the console wars between MS, So

I agree. I also think Apple is treating the iOS ecosystem like a video game console rather than a computer. If people looked at the console wars between MS, Sony, and Nintendo and compared their developer agreements to Apple's, they probably wouldn't get so bent out of shape over things. I know Microsoft has literally spent $millions on AAA titles just to get XBox360 exclusive releases. Somehow we don't get bent out of shape so much just because Halo is Xbox only. I don't see pundits wanting to burn Microsoft at the stake because they bought Bungie. Yet for some reason, when Apple does something similar, they must be evil.

zmmmmm 16y ago
As it happens, I do think it is evil that MS limits who can develop what for XBox. I actually see the fact that the console market has evolved that way as a warning to us how easily it can happen. However consoles simply don't matter very much. Phones are far more important than game consoles and that's the primary reason why there is so much more outcry about it for iOS. > Apple is treating the iOS ecosystem like a video game console rather than a computer Can you explain why, then, they have an entire series of ads based around the theme of "there's an app for that"? I can't think of anything more direct they could do to tout it as a "general purpose" computing platform. I think Apple fans keep trying to have it both ways here.
- ehnus 16y ago
  > As it happens, I do think it is evil that MS limits who can develop what for XBox. Although they restrict who can develop games destined for brick and mortar stores, Microsoft has provided XNA as a way of developing for their platform that is not altogether unreasonable in terms or expense.
orangecat 16y ago
I also think Apple is treating the iOS ecosystem like a video game console rather than a computer. Exactly. If people looked at the console wars between MS, Sony, and Nintendo and compared their developer agreements to Apple's, they probably wouldn't get so bent out of shape over things. Consoles aren't attempting to replace general purpose PCs, while all indications are that mobile computing devices are going to replace desktops and laptops for most of the population. If almost all of those devices are closed, the cost in freedom and innovation will be enormous.
- access_denied 16y ago
  Freedom and innovation is mostly not an issue of programing your home computer. It is about using DTP tools to publish your homebrown political magazine. Making art in all sorts of ways: music, sheet music, paintings, animations, movies, fotos and on and on. Writing your novel. The play for the theater. The website. The collection of your favourite recipes at your fingertipp (aka app). It's about the apps. For most people anyway. And the greates hindrance to freedom? You mean for most people? Bad usability that makes apps unusable like in not usable. Like DOS. You can't see the apps, you can't use them. So my argument here is basically that Apple is more an enabler than a stiffler of innovation.
kenjackson 16y ago
This is not true. The concern people had with Apple is that they were attempting to block content based on how it was originally made, across the board. No one cares if Apple gets exclusive deals. Good for them is they do. The concern is that Apple tells developers, "if you wrote this game originally in Java then you can't submit it to the app store." Or if your team uses in-house code generators with a DSL then you can't submit it, even if the DSL generates provably the most optimized Obj-C code possible. Neither MS, nor Sony, nor Nintendo ever made such claims.
- chc 16y ago
  I wish I could upvote this more than once. Everybody who makes the "video games" analogy totally ignores this. I remember one video game company talking about the cool Lisp dialect they'd invented for their games that they said was really integral to the project's success.

zmmmmm 16y ago

As it happens, I do think it is evil that MS limits who can develop what for XBox. I actually see the fact that the console market has evolved that way as a warning to us how easily it can happen. However consoles simply don't matter very much. Phones are far more important than game consoles and that's the primary reason why there is so much more outcry about it for iOS. > Apple is treating the iOS ecosystem like a video game console rather than a computer Can you explain why, then, they have an entire series of ads based around the theme of "there's an app for that"? I can't think of anything more direct they could do to tout it as a "general purpose" computing platform. I think Apple fans keep trying to have it both ways here.

ehnus 16y ago
> As it happens, I do think it is evil that MS limits who can develop what for XBox. Although they restrict who can develop games destined for brick and mortar stores, Microsoft has provided XNA as a way of developing for their platform that is not altogether unreasonable in terms or expense.

orangecat 16y ago

I also think Apple is treating the iOS ecosystem like a video game console rather than a computer. Exactly. If people looked at the console wars between MS, Sony, and Nintendo and compared their developer agreements to Apple's, they probably wouldn't get so bent out of shape over things. Consoles aren't attempting to replace general purpose PCs, while all indications are that mobile computing devices are going to replace desktops and laptops for most of the population. If almost all of those devices are closed, the cost in freedom and innovation will be enormous.

access_denied 16y ago
Freedom and innovation is mostly not an issue of programing your home computer. It is about using DTP tools to publish your homebrown political magazine. Making art in all sorts of ways: music, sheet music, paintings, animations, movies, fotos and on and on. Writing your novel. The play for the theater. The website. The collection of your favourite recipes at your fingertipp (aka app). It's about the apps. For most people anyway. And the greates hindrance to freedom? You mean for most people? Bad usability that makes apps unusable like in not usable. Like DOS. You can't see the apps, you can't use them. So my argument here is basically that Apple is more an enabler than a stiffler of innovation.

kenjackson 16y ago

This is not true. The concern people had with Apple is that they were attempting to block content based on how it was originally made, across the board. No one cares if Apple gets exclusive deals. Good for them is they do. The concern is that Apple tells developers, "if you wrote this game originally in Java then you can't submit it to the app store." Or if your team uses in-house code generators with a DSL then you can't submit it, even if the DSL generates provably the most optimized Obj-C code possible. Neither MS, nor Sony, nor Nintendo ever made such claims.

chc 16y ago
I wish I could upvote this more than once. Everybody who makes the "video games" analogy totally ignores this. I remember one video game company talking about the cool Lisp dialect they'd invented for their games that they said was really integral to the project's success.