8 ms·

TL, DR: If you are building a pfSense box with an x86 chip made in the past ~7 years [1], stop reading and carry on. Those of you on a power budget, and want e

by paws 9y ago

TL, DR: If you are building a pfSense box with an x86 chip made in the past ~7 years [1], stop reading and carry on. Those of you on a power budget, and want e.g. VPN support at closer to wire speeds, you're being advised to select a CPU with AES-NI to get hardware crypto offload. It's great we have software crypto in the first place, but under load it's likely to put a cap on your max throughput. Kudos to pfSense/Netgate announcing this ahead of time. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AES_instruction_set#Supporting_x86_CPUs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AES_instruction_set#Supporting...

niftich 9y ago
AMD has shipped AES-NI in every processor family starting with Bulldozer in 2011. Intel started in 2010 with Westmere, but kept it out of the lower-end models like Pentium, Celeron, and i3 for several generations. Only since Skylake (2015) is it included in every model produced from a supporting architecture. At least for Intel processors, the generalization above, absent other disclaimers, does not apply. Actual lookup tables are linked in other posts like this one [1]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14240007 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14240007
- paulmd 9y ago
  Not Bobcat, unfortunately - which is what's in the PC Engines APUv1.
- kop316 9y ago
  The immediate predecessor to the Netgate SG-2220 ( I forget the Model, but it was based off of the the PC Engines apu1d [1]) does not support AES-NI. It has the AMD G series T40E, which is based off of the Bobcat architecture [2] [3]). I use pfsense as a home router, and while I am very happy with it, I will be forced to upgrade that hardware, and I do not use any feature sets that require the use of AES-NI. In addition, the Netgate SG-2220 uses an Atom C2338, which was susceptible to the LPC bus failure [4] [5]. So as of right now, I would also be extremely hesitant to purchase the Netgate SG-2220 without some sort of assurance that the router I got is not affected by it. [1] https://pcengines.ch/apu1d4.htm https://pcengines.ch/apu1d4.htm [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_accelerated_processing_unit_microprocessors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_accelerated_proces... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobcat_(microarchitecture) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobcat_(microarchitecture) [4] https://www.netgate.com/products/sg-2220.html https://www.netgate.com/products/sg-2220.html [5] http://www.anandtech.com/show/11110/semi-critical-intel-atom-c2000-flaw-discovered http://www.anandtech.com/show/11110/semi-critical-intel-atom... EDIT: Interestingly enough, someone from Netgate said that the PC Engines APU is unaffected: https://www.reddit.com/r/PFSENSE/comments/68nd6y/pfsense_25_and_aesni/dgzrsma/ https://www.reddit.com/r/PFSENSE/comments/68nd6y/pfsense_25_... EDIT2: Seems they edited that, the APU1d won't be compatible.
mankyd 9y ago
Close. Sadly the Celeron I bought that came out in 2011 doesn't support this. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116348 https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681911... Do newer, but still cheap CPU's work with AES-NI?
- feld 9y ago
  What is your definition of cheap? Don't rule out ARM based solutions.
  - mankyd 9y ago
    Well, to get 2.5 running I am going to have to build another box. I'll need a CPU and motherboard. Possibly RAM. I'd like to find that for under $300. Under $150 would be more ideal. I'm certainly not ruling anything out. I simply want to be able to get a working PFSense instance up and running.
    - walterbell 9y ago
      PCengines APU2 has an AMD CPU with AES-NI, http://www.pcengines.ch/apu2c4.htm http://www.pcengines.ch/apu2c4.htm
  - dom0 9y ago
    ^- While cheap toy SoCs like those found in SBCs do (all?) have NEON, which includes hardware acceleration for SHA1/2 and AES, don't assume good performance. A x86 desktop core is faster in software than those SoCs with hardware. However, the poor I/O capabilities of most/all toy SoCs rule use as a high-bandwidth router out; you can't do Gigabit routing with just one built-in MAC and the other connected to a USB 2.0 port or somesuch.
    - gonzo 9y ago
      The expressobin board has 3 NICs, runs a dual-core Marvell 3700, which is ARMv8, and has a crypto-offload on the SoC. It sells for $49 on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06Y3V2FBK https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06Y3V2FBK AES-GCM runs quite well on ARMv8: https://www.rsaconference.com/writable/presentations/file_upload/cryp-w01-secure-and-efficient-implementation-of-aes-based-cryptosystems.pdf https://www.rsaconference.com/writable/presentations/file_up...
porjo 9y ago
The Celeron J1900 (released 2013) does not support AES-NI. It's popular in low-powered mini PC devices, many of which come preinstalled with pfSense when purchased from Aliexpress.
- duskwuff 9y ago
  Ditto for the Celeron 3215U, which is used in some newer devices along the same lines.
jsz0 9y ago
It's usually not even worth the cost of electricity to keep running hardware that old. Upgrading to modern power efficient hardware pays for itself pretty quickly with lower electrical bills.

by paws 9y ago

niftich 9y ago

AMD has shipped AES-NI in every processor family starting with Bulldozer in 2011. Intel started in 2010 with Westmere, but kept it out of the lower-end models like Pentium, Celeron, and i3 for several generations. Only since Skylake (2015) is it included in every model produced from a supporting architecture. At least for Intel processors, the generalization above, absent other disclaimers, does not apply. Actual lookup tables are linked in other posts like this one [1]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14240007 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14240007

paulmd 9y ago
Not Bobcat, unfortunately - which is what's in the PC Engines APUv1.
kop316 9y ago
The immediate predecessor to the Netgate SG-2220 ( I forget the Model, but it was based off of the the PC Engines apu1d [1]) does not support AES-NI. It has the AMD G series T40E, which is based off of the Bobcat architecture [2] [3]). I use pfsense as a home router, and while I am very happy with it, I will be forced to upgrade that hardware, and I do not use any feature sets that require the use of AES-NI. In addition, the Netgate SG-2220 uses an Atom C2338, which was susceptible to the LPC bus failure [4] [5]. So as of right now, I would also be extremely hesitant to purchase the Netgate SG-2220 without some sort of assurance that the router I got is not affected by it. [1] https://pcengines.ch/apu1d4.htm https://pcengines.ch/apu1d4.htm [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_accelerated_processing_unit_microprocessors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_accelerated_proces... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobcat_(microarchitecture) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobcat_(microarchitecture) [4] https://www.netgate.com/products/sg-2220.html https://www.netgate.com/products/sg-2220.html [5] http://www.anandtech.com/show/11110/semi-critical-intel-atom-c2000-flaw-discovered http://www.anandtech.com/show/11110/semi-critical-intel-atom... EDIT: Interestingly enough, someone from Netgate said that the PC Engines APU is unaffected: https://www.reddit.com/r/PFSENSE/comments/68nd6y/pfsense_25_and_aesni/dgzrsma/ https://www.reddit.com/r/PFSENSE/comments/68nd6y/pfsense_25_... EDIT2: Seems they edited that, the APU1d won't be compatible.

mankyd 9y ago

Close. Sadly the Celeron I bought that came out in 2011 doesn't support this. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116348 https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681911... Do newer, but still cheap CPU's work with AES-NI?

feld 9y ago
What is your definition of cheap? Don't rule out ARM based solutions.
- mankyd 9y ago
  Well, to get 2.5 running I am going to have to build another box. I'll need a CPU and motherboard. Possibly RAM. I'd like to find that for under $300. Under $150 would be more ideal. I'm certainly not ruling anything out. I simply want to be able to get a working PFSense instance up and running.
  - walterbell 9y ago
    PCengines APU2 has an AMD CPU with AES-NI, http://www.pcengines.ch/apu2c4.htm http://www.pcengines.ch/apu2c4.htm
- dom0 9y ago
  ^- While cheap toy SoCs like those found in SBCs do (all?) have NEON, which includes hardware acceleration for SHA1/2 and AES, don't assume good performance. A x86 desktop core is faster in software than those SoCs with hardware. However, the poor I/O capabilities of most/all toy SoCs rule use as a high-bandwidth router out; you can't do Gigabit routing with just one built-in MAC and the other connected to a USB 2.0 port or somesuch.
  - gonzo 9y ago
    The expressobin board has 3 NICs, runs a dual-core Marvell 3700, which is ARMv8, and has a crypto-offload on the SoC. It sells for $49 on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06Y3V2FBK https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06Y3V2FBK AES-GCM runs quite well on ARMv8: https://www.rsaconference.com/writable/presentations/file_upload/cryp-w01-secure-and-efficient-implementation-of-aes-based-cryptosystems.pdf https://www.rsaconference.com/writable/presentations/file_up...

porjo 9y ago

The Celeron J1900 (released 2013) does not support AES-NI. It's popular in low-powered mini PC devices, many of which come preinstalled with pfSense when purchased from Aliexpress.

duskwuff 9y ago
Ditto for the Celeron 3215U, which is used in some newer devices along the same lines.

jsz0 9y ago

It's usually not even worth the cost of electricity to keep running hardware that old. Upgrading to modern power efficient hardware pays for itself pretty quickly with lower electrical bills.