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The problem isn't that the Mac Pro isn't upgradeable. That is a symptom and a potential solution, but not necessarily the best one. The real problem here is th

by basseq 9y ago

The problem isn't that the Mac Pro isn't upgradeable. That is a symptom and a potential solution, but not necessarily the best one. The real problem here is that Apple itself hasn't been able to keep up with demands. If they were able to enhance and sell a "new model" of Mac pro every 6-12 months, the problem would go away. Nobody wants a hackintosh, barring the long tail of people who like building PC's anyway. (And that's an enthusiast market, not worth catering to.) A vast majority of pros would just buy a new machine every couple years. So the problem, then, is that there's no "new machine" for them to buy. Positing that the solution is to offer an upgradeable tower implies that Apple can't keep up with demand. Which, let's be honest, they can't. But the better solution here is to build a Mac Pro that Apple can upgrade in the form of a new model. That enthusiasts can upgrade it as well is a moot point (or an additional benefit). Hell, they could even have a Genius-led support model that swaps out the guts of your machine every 12-24 months. Apple-Hardware-As-A-Service?

paublyrne 9y ago
The real problem here is that Apple itself hasn't been able to keep up with demands. I think the problem is they chosen not to update the Mac Pro, not that they haven't been able to. Resources should not be an issue given their cash reserves. And frankly, even if the Mac Pro were not a profitable machine for Apple overall, they would be better served by choosing to keep it up to date, and to keep is desirable, in order to keep their developers happy.
- basseq 9y ago
  I suspect they got wrapped around the axle on too much industrial design and painted themselves into a corner where they couldn't upgrade it easily. The ROI of going back to the drawing board so soon was a non-starter. They're not yet at the point where their developers' grumblings are having a material negative impact on the bottom line. Yet. I hope they don't make the same mistake twice. But I don't think a hackintosh-inspired tower with the upgrade path left solely to the buyer would be a good strategy.
  - basseq 9y ago
    Also, note[1] that Apple isn't being stupid here. Their strategy was just wrong (namely expansion via Thunderbolt peripherals and multi-GPU performance). John Gruber suggests this is a bit of an "Oh Shit" moment for Apple, too. [1] https://daringfireball.net/2017/04/the_mac_pro_lives https://daringfireball.net/2017/04/the_mac_pro_lives
    - iainmerrick 9y ago
      Maybe not stupid, but very slow on the uptake. If they'd been taking the temperature of the community properly, they wouldn't have been surprised when the reaction to their new MacBook Pros was "okay, whatever, but what about the desktops?"
      - basseq 9y ago
        Gruber asserts it's the opposite: Even among pro users, notebooks are by far the most popular Macs. In second place are iMacs. The Mac Pro is third. Apple declined to describe the Mac Pro’s share of all Mac sales any more specifically than “a single- digit percent”, but my gut feeling is that the single digit is a lot closer to 1 than it is to 9.
        iainmerrick 9y ago
        I meant critical reaction, not sales. It's true that critics don't always represent the silent happy majority. But if there weren't a real problem, they wouldn't be scrambling to show their Mac Pro roadmap in advance. In terms of sales, sure, the models that are selling the best are also the ones that have been refreshed recently: https://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac https://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac
  - TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
    I think the grumblings are impacting the bottom line, and have penetrated the Cupertino distortion field. The slightly panicked assertion that "Hey we're working on new Macs for pro users" earlier this year is evidence of that. Previously the strategy seems to have been to put minimal effort into the Mac line and push it towards a closed kind-of-good-enough commodity platform designed to maximise margins not performance - basically a step up from the iPad range, for people who have an inexplicable legacy interest in real keyboards and bigger screens. That was a very bad mistake. It seems to be the case that Cook doesn't understand the pro market, and may even be vaguely hostile to it, for some reason. In fact there doesn't seem to be anyone at senior level cheerleading for professional users, and no reaching out for input from professional communities. I hope the grumblings have been loud enough to steer management back to reality. If not, we're just going to hold our noses and move back to Windows for professional creative software and Linux for everything else - which might seem like a small immediate loss, but will do massive damage to the Apple brand image.

by basseq 9y ago

paublyrne 9y ago

The real problem here is that Apple itself hasn't been able to keep up with demands. I think the problem is they chosen not to update the Mac Pro, not that they haven't been able to. Resources should not be an issue given their cash reserves. And frankly, even if the Mac Pro were not a profitable machine for Apple overall, they would be better served by choosing to keep it up to date, and to keep is desirable, in order to keep their developers happy.

basseq 9y ago
I suspect they got wrapped around the axle on too much industrial design and painted themselves into a corner where they couldn't upgrade it easily. The ROI of going back to the drawing board so soon was a non-starter. They're not yet at the point where their developers' grumblings are having a material negative impact on the bottom line. Yet. I hope they don't make the same mistake twice. But I don't think a hackintosh-inspired tower with the upgrade path left solely to the buyer would be a good strategy.
- basseq 9y ago
  Also, note[1] that Apple isn't being stupid here. Their strategy was just wrong (namely expansion via Thunderbolt peripherals and multi-GPU performance). John Gruber suggests this is a bit of an "Oh Shit" moment for Apple, too. [1] https://daringfireball.net/2017/04/the_mac_pro_lives https://daringfireball.net/2017/04/the_mac_pro_lives
  - iainmerrick 9y ago
    Maybe not stupid, but very slow on the uptake. If they'd been taking the temperature of the community properly, they wouldn't have been surprised when the reaction to their new MacBook Pros was "okay, whatever, but what about the desktops?"
    - basseq 9y ago
      Gruber asserts it's the opposite: Even among pro users, notebooks are by far the most popular Macs. In second place are iMacs. The Mac Pro is third. Apple declined to describe the Mac Pro’s share of all Mac sales any more specifically than “a single- digit percent”, but my gut feeling is that the single digit is a lot closer to 1 than it is to 9.
      - iainmerrick 9y ago
        I meant critical reaction, not sales. It's true that critics don't always represent the silent happy majority. But if there weren't a real problem, they wouldn't be scrambling to show their Mac Pro roadmap in advance. In terms of sales, sure, the models that are selling the best are also the ones that have been refreshed recently: https://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac https://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac
- TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
  I think the grumblings are impacting the bottom line, and have penetrated the Cupertino distortion field. The slightly panicked assertion that "Hey we're working on new Macs for pro users" earlier this year is evidence of that. Previously the strategy seems to have been to put minimal effort into the Mac line and push it towards a closed kind-of-good-enough commodity platform designed to maximise margins not performance - basically a step up from the iPad range, for people who have an inexplicable legacy interest in real keyboards and bigger screens. That was a very bad mistake. It seems to be the case that Cook doesn't understand the pro market, and may even be vaguely hostile to it, for some reason. In fact there doesn't seem to be anyone at senior level cheerleading for professional users, and no reaching out for input from professional communities. I hope the grumblings have been loud enough to steer management back to reality. If not, we're just going to hold our noses and move back to Windows for professional creative software and Linux for everything else - which might seem like a small immediate loss, but will do massive damage to the Apple brand image.