8 ms·

Via a bit of sleuthing, I managed to figure out what business this person is writing about. I could post a link to the Yelp page, but that feels a bit doxxy, so

Via a bit of sleuthing, I managed to figure out what business this person is writing about. I could post a link to the Yelp page, but that feels a bit doxxy, so I don't know if it's appropriate. The business does have more one-star reviews than one might normally expect, but the texts of the accompanying reviews contain specific details of complaints, and the complaints are appropriate for the ISP/TV category. For example: Absolutely atrocious. I have never had a worse experience with a company. After multiple calls to service my internet connection they refused to accommodate me efficiently. The customer service representative was rude, disinterested, and frankly mean. On top of this, they have messed up my bill several times, and failed to rectify them even after acknowledging that they messed up the billing. The service was simply unacceptable. If you can avoid using them, by all means do. A couple of the users' reviews do show cities outside of the business's city, but that could just be out-of-date user profiles, or people who have moved since they posted their reviews. The oldest of the one-star reviews appears to be April 2015. Of the reviews "not recommended" by Yelp (i.e., hidden by default), two are one-star and one is four-star. My feeling is that these are not fake reviews, but rather that an ISP/TV service is a business quite unlikely to attract positive/neutral reviews. Personally it had never occurred to me to review any ISPs on Yelp, even those I liked. It seems likely that these are legitimately upset customers who realized they can use Yelp to harm the business they had a bad interaction with. So, if I am correct, these reviews are legitimate, but not representative.

drzaiusapelord 10y ago
The issue isn't that they're fake but that positive reviews end up hidden as 'not recommended' and negative ones suddenly float to the top once the protection money stops. It looks like there's manipulation of the algorithm that determines what reviews are legitimate on a per client basis. The 'free' package is pretty unforgiving, but if you pay then its tweaked more towards your favor. Nothing about this would be illegal. Its how Yelp manages their site and I believe have already won a lawsuit against this. Consumers need to be taught that Yelp isn't trustworthy. Sadly, it seems to have a Facebook-like network effect that'll be tough to beat. On the plus side Google reviews are the default on Google maps and other Google services and they seem to not play these games.
- DamnInteresting 10y ago
  In this case, of the three "not recommended" reviews, one is positive (four stars) and two are negative (one star). This seems contrary to the common assertion that the bad reviews are all unleashed. Though I concede that if Yelp is guilty of the accusations, they might be smart about it, and leave some negative reviews hidden. I'm just concerned that there is still no ready evidence that Yelp is doing this deliberately. I have seen no confirmed cases of hidden negative reviews suddenly being displayed after a contract is canceled, nor of previously displayed positive reviews becoming hidden, nor any compelling evidence that the negative reviews are disingenuous, nor any recorded communication from Yelp implying that paying up will improve reviews. I like assertions to be accompanied by appropriate evidence. Consider: Most business owners pour their hearts and their lives into their businesses. But no business is perfect, and they will make mistakes that upset customers. Yelp encourages criticism. It sucks to have your life's work harshly criticized. So it's miles easier for business owners to accept that the negative reviews are fraudulent.
  - drzaiusapelord 10y ago
    There is no evidence because there can be no evidence. Every single time this is shown with screenshots, Yelp says the same thing: that its proprietary algorith changes all the time. They get a free copout and all of its defenders on the web just parrot that statement. Lower-ranked reviews fly to the top? Algo change. Stars suddenly missing? Algo change. Positive reviews suddenly 'not recommended' Algo change. Saw in this case and more if you care to do some legwork. http://www.grubstreet.com/2015/09/yelp-manipulates-reviews-again.html http://www.grubstreet.com/2015/09/yelp-manipulates-reviews-a... Oh and the algo is beneficial to paying customers without actually saying so. You can bullshit it anyway you like, "high CPM via our ad network or profile enhancement package means a more reputable business which means those not recommended 4 star reviews are probably true" and off you go. Or support is much more willing to work with you to get rid of 'suspicious' one and two star reviews if you call and the CRM pop-ups you have the 'gold package.'
    - DamnInteresting 10y ago
eip 10y ago
>Absolutely atrocious. I have never had a worse experience with a company. Comcast?
eeeeeeeeeeeee 10y ago
Isn't it also possible that when you buy that plan from Yelp, they push your company more and that leads to more negative reviews along with positive ones? But as part of that agreement (they might not tell you they do it), they hide the negative ones (all or some, or maybe even only temporarily) so that your company thrives. If you thrive, Yelp thrives because they want your business to keep paying for Yelp and you are probably less likely to cancel if you see a bunch of 5 star reviews and few negative ones. And maybe after a certain time they stop hiding the negative ones, or it could be as cynical as what the OP is sorta implying -- that Yelp begins showing all the negative reviews they were holding back once you stop paying? I'm not sure I believe Yelp is writing fraudulent negative reviews for companies because it would be so easy to prove and would be, well...fraud. But hiding negative reviews that were written by real people as long as you are paying Yelp does seem like something a company could justify to itself, however unethical it still is in my eyes.
- DamnInteresting 10y ago
  > Isn't it also possible that when you buy that plan from Yelp, they push your company more and that leads to more negative reviews along with positive ones? But as part of that agreement (they might not tell you they do it), they hide the negative ones (all or some, or maybe even only temporarily) so that your company thrives. Sure, it's possible that perverse incentives would drive Yelp to such rationalized missteps, my argument is that it would be easy to prove if it's true. But none of the complaining businesses have offered proof, only conjecture. I'm not "calling bullshit" here, I'm just asking for evidence in a scenario where evidence should be easily accessible if it exists. Innocent until proven guilty, and all that.

drzaiusapelord 10y ago

The issue isn't that they're fake but that positive reviews end up hidden as 'not recommended' and negative ones suddenly float to the top once the protection money stops. It looks like there's manipulation of the algorithm that determines what reviews are legitimate on a per client basis. The 'free' package is pretty unforgiving, but if you pay then its tweaked more towards your favor. Nothing about this would be illegal. Its how Yelp manages their site and I believe have already won a lawsuit against this. Consumers need to be taught that Yelp isn't trustworthy. Sadly, it seems to have a Facebook-like network effect that'll be tough to beat. On the plus side Google reviews are the default on Google maps and other Google services and they seem to not play these games.

DamnInteresting 10y ago
In this case, of the three "not recommended" reviews, one is positive (four stars) and two are negative (one star). This seems contrary to the common assertion that the bad reviews are all unleashed. Though I concede that if Yelp is guilty of the accusations, they might be smart about it, and leave some negative reviews hidden. I'm just concerned that there is still no ready evidence that Yelp is doing this deliberately. I have seen no confirmed cases of hidden negative reviews suddenly being displayed after a contract is canceled, nor of previously displayed positive reviews becoming hidden, nor any compelling evidence that the negative reviews are disingenuous, nor any recorded communication from Yelp implying that paying up will improve reviews. I like assertions to be accompanied by appropriate evidence. Consider: Most business owners pour their hearts and their lives into their businesses. But no business is perfect, and they will make mistakes that upset customers. Yelp encourages criticism. It sucks to have your life's work harshly criticized. So it's miles easier for business owners to accept that the negative reviews are fraudulent.
- drzaiusapelord 10y ago
  There is no evidence because there can be no evidence. Every single time this is shown with screenshots, Yelp says the same thing: that its proprietary algorith changes all the time. They get a free copout and all of its defenders on the web just parrot that statement. Lower-ranked reviews fly to the top? Algo change. Stars suddenly missing? Algo change. Positive reviews suddenly 'not recommended' Algo change. Saw in this case and more if you care to do some legwork. http://www.grubstreet.com/2015/09/yelp-manipulates-reviews-again.html http://www.grubstreet.com/2015/09/yelp-manipulates-reviews-a... Oh and the algo is beneficial to paying customers without actually saying so. You can bullshit it anyway you like, "high CPM via our ad network or profile enhancement package means a more reputable business which means those not recommended 4 star reviews are probably true" and off you go. Or support is much more willing to work with you to get rid of 'suspicious' one and two star reviews if you call and the CRM pop-ups you have the 'gold package.'
  - DamnInteresting 10y ago

eip 10y ago

>Absolutely atrocious. I have never had a worse experience with a company. Comcast?

eeeeeeeeeeeee 10y ago

Isn't it also possible that when you buy that plan from Yelp, they push your company more and that leads to more negative reviews along with positive ones? But as part of that agreement (they might not tell you they do it), they hide the negative ones (all or some, or maybe even only temporarily) so that your company thrives. If you thrive, Yelp thrives because they want your business to keep paying for Yelp and you are probably less likely to cancel if you see a bunch of 5 star reviews and few negative ones. And maybe after a certain time they stop hiding the negative ones, or it could be as cynical as what the OP is sorta implying -- that Yelp begins showing all the negative reviews they were holding back once you stop paying? I'm not sure I believe Yelp is writing fraudulent negative reviews for companies because it would be so easy to prove and would be, well...fraud. But hiding negative reviews that were written by real people as long as you are paying Yelp does seem like something a company could justify to itself, however unethical it still is in my eyes.

DamnInteresting 10y ago
> Isn't it also possible that when you buy that plan from Yelp, they push your company more and that leads to more negative reviews along with positive ones? But as part of that agreement (they might not tell you they do it), they hide the negative ones (all or some, or maybe even only temporarily) so that your company thrives. Sure, it's possible that perverse incentives would drive Yelp to such rationalized missteps, my argument is that it would be easy to prove if it's true. But none of the complaining businesses have offered proof, only conjecture. I'm not "calling bullshit" here, I'm just asking for evidence in a scenario where evidence should be easily accessible if it exists. Innocent until proven guilty, and all that.