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> The top management consultancies, the top investment banks and private equity groups are full of HBS grads. You think they all would have got these jobs witho

> The top management consultancies, the top investment banks and private equity groups are full of HBS grads. You think they all would have got these jobs without going through the HBS process, networking with their peers and alumni who end up working for these same companies, interning, and getting the HBS seal of approval? Well yeah, absolutely. HBS is full of analysts and consultants from those firms and institutions taking a pit stop on their way to partner. I find it fascinating how many people here are eager to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about when I'm the one with firsthand experience..

gerpsh 9y ago
Let's take a specific example. For grad school, I went to a university with a generally well regarded MBA program, which drew on-campus recruiting from MBB. The recruiting process for MBA students was short recruiter interview -> case interviews. Non-MBA students interested in positions at MBB had it a bit different: in between the recruiter interview and the case interviews was an extremely difficult written exam designed to test the candidate's "reasoning" ability. A couple of my (pretty smart) classmates tried to prepare for these exams and eventually took them, failing miserably. They both reported that it was the hardest test they ever took. Both ended up at second-tier consulting firms. Let's get more general and rigorous. Kellogg Business School professor Lauren Rivera studies the effects of educational credentials on employment opportunity. Her research confirms that educational pedigree is the single most important factor for gaining employment in elite positions in finance, consulting, and law, with the implication that your education is an indication of your social class, and your comfort in the upper echelons of society. [Link to her work] (http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/faculty/directory/rivera_lauren.aspx#research http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/faculty/directory/rivera...) I would say it's bit ignorant to say that a Harvard MBA has no effect on employability or opportunity.
- DelaneyM 9y ago
  Comparing MBAs' & undergrads' experiences is specious, at best. And if you're comparing other graduate students against MBAs, the recruiting process for MBB is exactly the same. (source: I did my time at McKinsey, the 'M' in MBB.) Regarding Prof. Rivera's study, I'm curious whether it attempts to separate causation & correlation. At HBS, the number of ex-MBB consultants in the program is roughly equal to the number who leave into MBB - many swap out and in, but the figures are in the same range. Does she account for that? Also, any analysis which groups JDs & MBAs together is 100% flawed. Those two may have similar prestige, but wildly different career progressions.
  - gerpsh 9y ago
    > Comparing MBAs' & undergrads' experiences is specious, at best. And if you're comparing other graduate students against MBAs, the recruiting process for MBB is exactly the same. (source: I did my time at McKinsey, the 'M' in MBB.) I'm talking about other graduate students, and (at least in this example) the recruiting process is NOT the same. It didn't matter if you were getting a master's in basket weaving or a PhD in physics, you were required to take the test, again at least at this particular university. MBAs were spared the test and went straight to the normal interview process. Also, had you not done an elite MBA, what do you think your path to McKinsey would have consisted of? > Regarding Prof. Rivera's study, I'm curious whether it attempts to separate causation & correlation. At HBS, the number of ex-MBB consultants in the program is roughly equal to the number who leave into MBB - many swap out and in, but the figures are in the same range. Does she account for that? Prof. Rivera's research consists of multiple related studies whose findings confirm that, regardless of skills and relevant experience, the most important factor in hiring for elite firms in business and law are educational pedigree, creating a discrepancy in opportunity for those that get an elite education and those that don't. She accomplishes this through ethnographic research on the recruitment practices of the firms. > Also, any analysis which groups JDs & MBAs together is 100% flawed. Those two may have similar prestige, but wildly different career progressions. I disagree in this context. The point of her research is that careers which tend to lead to powerful positions in society are practically closed off to those that don't have elite educations. If you want get into high finance or MBB consulting or BigLaw, it behooves you to attend an elite university, and while you're there, do as the Romans do. Prof. Rivera's research is _really_ interesting, you should check it out.
freyir 9y ago
> HBS is full of analysts and consultants from those firms and institutions taking a pit stop on their way to partner. Many get their MBA to help them move up from analyst to consultant. Most won't make partner, but many will spin into lucrative executive positions with Fortune 1000 companies. So yes, some already are on the inside track with top firms, and need HBS or another Ivy MBA to move up to the next level. For others, it will help them build credibility and get their foot in the door. In either case, HBS is acting as gatekeeper. When you look at how much the banking and consulting industries focus their recruiting efforts on a handful of top schools, I don't think correlation or causation is even a question. Graduates from other schools are not getting the same attention (perhaps because HBS has done such a great job screening their applicants already), which further helps HBS grads. I'm sorry HBS didn't help your career as an engineer/entrepreneur, but this doesn't negate the experience of the 50+% of students who go into banking and consulting positions, for whom an HBS MBA and the alumni connections will be a boon.
caminante 9y ago
Thank you for sharing your story and putting up with these comments. I just re-visited this thread a day later and didn't realize many of your points were not only shared by my comments in parallel, but also being re-requested by the same people.

gerpsh 9y ago

Let's take a specific example. For grad school, I went to a university with a generally well regarded MBA program, which drew on-campus recruiting from MBB. The recruiting process for MBA students was short recruiter interview -> case interviews. Non-MBA students interested in positions at MBB had it a bit different: in between the recruiter interview and the case interviews was an extremely difficult written exam designed to test the candidate's "reasoning" ability. A couple of my (pretty smart) classmates tried to prepare for these exams and eventually took them, failing miserably. They both reported that it was the hardest test they ever took. Both ended up at second-tier consulting firms. Let's get more general and rigorous. Kellogg Business School professor Lauren Rivera studies the effects of educational credentials on employment opportunity. Her research confirms that educational pedigree is the single most important factor for gaining employment in elite positions in finance, consulting, and law, with the implication that your education is an indication of your social class, and your comfort in the upper echelons of society. [Link to her work] (http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/faculty/directory/rivera_lauren.aspx#research http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/faculty/directory/rivera...) I would say it's bit ignorant to say that a Harvard MBA has no effect on employability or opportunity.

DelaneyM 9y ago
Comparing MBAs' & undergrads' experiences is specious, at best. And if you're comparing other graduate students against MBAs, the recruiting process for MBB is exactly the same. (source: I did my time at McKinsey, the 'M' in MBB.) Regarding Prof. Rivera's study, I'm curious whether it attempts to separate causation & correlation. At HBS, the number of ex-MBB consultants in the program is roughly equal to the number who leave into MBB - many swap out and in, but the figures are in the same range. Does she account for that? Also, any analysis which groups JDs & MBAs together is 100% flawed. Those two may have similar prestige, but wildly different career progressions.
- gerpsh 9y ago
  > Comparing MBAs' & undergrads' experiences is specious, at best. And if you're comparing other graduate students against MBAs, the recruiting process for MBB is exactly the same. (source: I did my time at McKinsey, the 'M' in MBB.) I'm talking about other graduate students, and (at least in this example) the recruiting process is NOT the same. It didn't matter if you were getting a master's in basket weaving or a PhD in physics, you were required to take the test, again at least at this particular university. MBAs were spared the test and went straight to the normal interview process. Also, had you not done an elite MBA, what do you think your path to McKinsey would have consisted of? > Regarding Prof. Rivera's study, I'm curious whether it attempts to separate causation & correlation. At HBS, the number of ex-MBB consultants in the program is roughly equal to the number who leave into MBB - many swap out and in, but the figures are in the same range. Does she account for that? Prof. Rivera's research consists of multiple related studies whose findings confirm that, regardless of skills and relevant experience, the most important factor in hiring for elite firms in business and law are educational pedigree, creating a discrepancy in opportunity for those that get an elite education and those that don't. She accomplishes this through ethnographic research on the recruitment practices of the firms. > Also, any analysis which groups JDs & MBAs together is 100% flawed. Those two may have similar prestige, but wildly different career progressions. I disagree in this context. The point of her research is that careers which tend to lead to powerful positions in society are practically closed off to those that don't have elite educations. If you want get into high finance or MBB consulting or BigLaw, it behooves you to attend an elite university, and while you're there, do as the Romans do. Prof. Rivera's research is _really_ interesting, you should check it out.

freyir 9y ago

> HBS is full of analysts and consultants from those firms and institutions taking a pit stop on their way to partner. Many get their MBA to help them move up from analyst to consultant. Most won't make partner, but many will spin into lucrative executive positions with Fortune 1000 companies. So yes, some already are on the inside track with top firms, and need HBS or another Ivy MBA to move up to the next level. For others, it will help them build credibility and get their foot in the door. In either case, HBS is acting as gatekeeper. When you look at how much the banking and consulting industries focus their recruiting efforts on a handful of top schools, I don't think correlation or causation is even a question. Graduates from other schools are not getting the same attention (perhaps because HBS has done such a great job screening their applicants already), which further helps HBS grads. I'm sorry HBS didn't help your career as an engineer/entrepreneur, but this doesn't negate the experience of the 50+% of students who go into banking and consulting positions, for whom an HBS MBA and the alumni connections will be a boon.

caminante 9y ago

Thank you for sharing your story and putting up with these comments. I just re-visited this thread a day later and didn't realize many of your points were not only shared by my comments in parallel, but also being re-requested by the same people.