4 ms·

Whenever I hear critiques of MBAs I think of this anecdote from a paper [1] by Yanis Varoufakis: In the parlance of signaling theory these [MBA] transcripts ar

Whenever I hear critiques of MBAs I think of this anecdote from a paper [1] by Yanis Varoufakis: In the parlance of signaling theory these [MBA] transcripts are known as screening devices. One personnel manager (of a financial services company) explained this to me candidly: “I have no doubt that economics courses, MBAs, etc. teach nothing I need my employees to know. If anything I need to reprogram them on the job. The courses they have taken encourage bad thinking.” “But then,” I asked, “why do you prefer to hire college graduates?” “Because,” he answered matter of factly, “if these kids were willing (and able) to pay large sums of money in fees; if they submitted boring assignment after boring assignment without fail, and did not complain vigorously in the process; then there is a good chance that they are the kind of people who will appeal to my customers and do as they are told.” [1] https://www.yanisvaroufakis.eu/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/against-equaltiy-published-version.pdf https://www.yanisvaroufakis.eu/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/ag...

dorianm 9y ago
> WE EDUCATE LEADERS WHO MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD. http://www.hbs.edu/about/Pages/default.aspx http://www.hbs.edu/about/Pages/default.aspx > Careers change. Industries change. The world changes. With the programs at Stanford Graduate School of Business, you’ll not only keep pace with that change — you’ll drive it. https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/stanford-gsb-experience/why-business-school https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/stanford-gsb-experience/why-bus... (Related: Cool URIs don't change https://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI https://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI)
hellofunk 9y ago
This is true of college degrees in general, lots of companies in various industries require proof of a bachelor's degree, regardless of what the subject matter was, because it shows an ability to stick to a goal and get something done, despite the actual quality or enjoyment of the work.
- ntsplnkv2 9y ago
  Spend tens of thousands of dollars, go into significant debt, just to prove you can "stick to a goal." I can't be the only one who sees a problem with this. It's either a lie or a poor reflection on our society.
  - chongli 9y ago
    The problem with our society is that measures become targets. That's it, that's all there is to it. We keep failing to learn the lesson of Goodhart's law, over and over again. It explains the politics of triangulation, bad monetary policy, the bad management style of MBAs, the emphasis on wealth for social signalling, and on and on and on. It's such a common phenomenon that I'm a bit scared!
    - losteric 9y ago
      The only solution is to raise good citizens that take pride in their work and strive to do the best through their own free will. It sounds like hippy BS, but we're never going to police everyone into doing a good job with metrics... might as well try to teach a different philosophy of work.
  - merpnderp 9y ago
    "Significant debt" being on average about the price of a low end car. And "prove you can stick to a goal" being a massive increase in lifetime earnings over those without a college degree. I can't be the only person who sees how fair and progressive this is? It's a wonderful reflection on our society.
    - ntsplnkv2 9y ago
      http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/18/pf/college/average-student-loan-debt/ http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/18/pf/college/average-student-l... Average debt for 2015 grads is 30k. That is not a low end car. > And "prove you can stick to a goal" being a massive increase in lifetime earnings over those without a college degree. Going to college is not the only way you can prove you stick to a goal, which according to the OP, is the only purpose of college. This is an immense waste of resources, all so that a company can take a little less risk when hiring someone, if at all. And college is such a business today that academic integrity is an afterthought, the degree is continually losing its value. > I can't be the only person who sees how fair and progressive this is? It's a wonderful reflection on our society. There is no need for sarcasm here. Either way, it doesn't follow from your argument that it is fair and progressive.
- vivekd 9y ago
  When you think about it, that's a horrible standard for hiring isn't it. Hiring someone who just follows the grain, does as they're told and doesn't complain despite the ridiculousness of the process. It seems to ensure that only the worst, least creative, most sheepish individuals will rise to the top. This could explain the slump modern society has found itself in.
  - Unkechaug 9y ago
    It depends on why you are hiring them. There is always a place for people who will just take orders, and it doesn't mean they will rise to the top. If everyone was imaginative and didn't want to follow suit, it would be much more difficult to assemble enough people to cooperate and build something big together.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- TheGRS 9y ago
  I disagree that this is a driving factor in getting college grads, even if it might be one of the reasons. College education gives you a wide breadth of knowledge and critical thinking skills that could be applied to many subjects. Its also just an accepted standard for many white collar jobs if one doesn't have the requisite experience.
ddkto 9y ago
This sentiment is further eloborated in the book "Disciplined Minds" - http://disciplinedminds.tripod.com/ http://disciplinedminds.tripod.com/ I highly recommend it.
- greenyoda 9y ago
  I also recommend it. It's especially interesting if you've been through a PhD or other graduate degree, since the author (who has a PhD in physics) spends a lot of time talking about how such educational programs indoctrinate their students.
baursak 9y ago
Here's Chomsky expanding on this further: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFf6_0T2ZoI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFf6_0T2ZoI
IslaDeEncanta 9y ago
Yanis Varoufakis is a hero.

dorianm 9y ago

> WE EDUCATE LEADERS WHO MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD. http://www.hbs.edu/about/Pages/default.aspx http://www.hbs.edu/about/Pages/default.aspx > Careers change. Industries change. The world changes. With the programs at Stanford Graduate School of Business, you’ll not only keep pace with that change — you’ll drive it. https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/stanford-gsb-experience/why-business-school https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/stanford-gsb-experience/why-bus... (Related: Cool URIs don't change https://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI https://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI)

hellofunk 9y ago

This is true of college degrees in general, lots of companies in various industries require proof of a bachelor's degree, regardless of what the subject matter was, because it shows an ability to stick to a goal and get something done, despite the actual quality or enjoyment of the work.

ntsplnkv2 9y ago
Spend tens of thousands of dollars, go into significant debt, just to prove you can "stick to a goal." I can't be the only one who sees a problem with this. It's either a lie or a poor reflection on our society.
- chongli 9y ago
  The problem with our society is that measures become targets. That's it, that's all there is to it. We keep failing to learn the lesson of Goodhart's law, over and over again. It explains the politics of triangulation, bad monetary policy, the bad management style of MBAs, the emphasis on wealth for social signalling, and on and on and on. It's such a common phenomenon that I'm a bit scared!
  - losteric 9y ago
    The only solution is to raise good citizens that take pride in their work and strive to do the best through their own free will. It sounds like hippy BS, but we're never going to police everyone into doing a good job with metrics... might as well try to teach a different philosophy of work.
- merpnderp 9y ago
  "Significant debt" being on average about the price of a low end car. And "prove you can stick to a goal" being a massive increase in lifetime earnings over those without a college degree. I can't be the only person who sees how fair and progressive this is? It's a wonderful reflection on our society.
  - ntsplnkv2 9y ago
    http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/18/pf/college/average-student-loan-debt/ http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/18/pf/college/average-student-l... Average debt for 2015 grads is 30k. That is not a low end car. > And "prove you can stick to a goal" being a massive increase in lifetime earnings over those without a college degree. Going to college is not the only way you can prove you stick to a goal, which according to the OP, is the only purpose of college. This is an immense waste of resources, all so that a company can take a little less risk when hiring someone, if at all. And college is such a business today that academic integrity is an afterthought, the degree is continually losing its value. > I can't be the only person who sees how fair and progressive this is? It's a wonderful reflection on our society. There is no need for sarcasm here. Either way, it doesn't follow from your argument that it is fair and progressive.
vivekd 9y ago
When you think about it, that's a horrible standard for hiring isn't it. Hiring someone who just follows the grain, does as they're told and doesn't complain despite the ridiculousness of the process. It seems to ensure that only the worst, least creative, most sheepish individuals will rise to the top. This could explain the slump modern society has found itself in.
- Unkechaug 9y ago
  It depends on why you are hiring them. There is always a place for people who will just take orders, and it doesn't mean they will rise to the top. If everyone was imaginative and didn't want to follow suit, it would be much more difficult to assemble enough people to cooperate and build something big together.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
TheGRS 9y ago
I disagree that this is a driving factor in getting college grads, even if it might be one of the reasons. College education gives you a wide breadth of knowledge and critical thinking skills that could be applied to many subjects. Its also just an accepted standard for many white collar jobs if one doesn't have the requisite experience.

ddkto 9y ago

This sentiment is further eloborated in the book "Disciplined Minds" - http://disciplinedminds.tripod.com/ http://disciplinedminds.tripod.com/ I highly recommend it.

greenyoda 9y ago
I also recommend it. It's especially interesting if you've been through a PhD or other graduate degree, since the author (who has a PhD in physics) spends a lot of time talking about how such educational programs indoctrinate their students.

baursak 9y ago

Here's Chomsky expanding on this further: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFf6_0T2ZoI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFf6_0T2ZoI

IslaDeEncanta 9y ago

Yanis Varoufakis is a hero.