4 ms·

> bias against white males? IME, the premise that such a thing exists (with any meaningful impact at any meaningful scale) almost defines the white nationalist

> bias against white males? IME, the premise that such a thing exists (with any meaningful impact at any meaningful scale) almost defines the white nationalists (alt-right). The racists with some intelligence rarely will outright say something socially unpopular; they try to make themselves palatable - 'we don't hate people based on their skin color, we just want to protect people like you with white skin from the victimization we are facing'. It's an old tactic: Adolph invaded other countries to protect Germans; Russia recently invaded Ukraine to protect Russians; everyone is a victim.

kr7 9y ago
You do realize that is exactly why alt-righters believe there is bias against white people? "We need to protect minorities and women from the white male oppressors" is basically the slogan of the identity politics wing of the left.
- hackuser 9y ago
  > "We need to protect minorities and women from the white male oppressors" is basically the slogan of the identity politics wing of the left. No, that's something white nationalists say to each other; I don't see it elsewhere (in any significant quantity). There is overwhelming evidence of discrimination against people who are in minorities and against women, and as these people are largely excluded from power due to that same discrimination, they have little ability to protect themselves. If we believe in liberty, opportunity and meritocracy, and basic morality for everyone, then everyone should do something about it. For the most part, only white nationalists say white-skinned people are discriminated against (with any significant scale or impact). There is no evidence of it that I've seen and a look around SV and the IT industry, corporate offices, governments and legislatures of every Western nation, college campuses, and any other locale of wealth, power and privilege shows how absurd the idea is. But the argument is not about discrimination, it's propaganda that is about creating hatred, trying to get people to see everyone as friends or enemies based on skin color (which is perhaps why white nationalists think there's some sort of bizarre us vs. them team competition), and providing a (transparent) excuse for racial hatred. Few people are fooled.
  - nnfy 9y ago
    >There is overwhelming evidence of discrimination against people who are in minorities and against women, and as these people are largely excluded from power due to that same discrimination I'd say there's more "overwhelming evidence" of confusion of equality of opportunity with equality of outcome, but this is an unpopular opinion to even suggest, because people like yourself immediately throw around accusations of fascism and white nationalism for asking the wrong questions.
  - kr7 9y ago
    You say "we need to protect minorities and women from the white male oppressors" is not an accurate representation of their viewpoint. Then you proceed to say that minorities and women are discriminated against, and we need to do something about that. Who is doing this discrimination, then? You point out that white-skinned people tend to hold power in (traditionally white) Western nations. I would say that my description is accurate.
nnfy 9y ago
Corporations are literally (including my former company) and publicly creating initiatives to hire more minority and female employees. This means that race and gender are now being considered alongside merit, and white males are now at a disadvantage. If this isn't the very definition of bias, I don't know what is. It's the usual conflation of equality of opportunity with equality of outcome. The fact that is that this is racist behavior, but people these days ignore it because it's en vogue.

kr7 9y ago

You do realize that is exactly why alt-righters believe there is bias against white people? "We need to protect minorities and women from the white male oppressors" is basically the slogan of the identity politics wing of the left.

hackuser 9y ago
> "We need to protect minorities and women from the white male oppressors" is basically the slogan of the identity politics wing of the left. No, that's something white nationalists say to each other; I don't see it elsewhere (in any significant quantity). There is overwhelming evidence of discrimination against people who are in minorities and against women, and as these people are largely excluded from power due to that same discrimination, they have little ability to protect themselves. If we believe in liberty, opportunity and meritocracy, and basic morality for everyone, then everyone should do something about it. For the most part, only white nationalists say white-skinned people are discriminated against (with any significant scale or impact). There is no evidence of it that I've seen and a look around SV and the IT industry, corporate offices, governments and legislatures of every Western nation, college campuses, and any other locale of wealth, power and privilege shows how absurd the idea is. But the argument is not about discrimination, it's propaganda that is about creating hatred, trying to get people to see everyone as friends or enemies based on skin color (which is perhaps why white nationalists think there's some sort of bizarre us vs. them team competition), and providing a (transparent) excuse for racial hatred. Few people are fooled.
- nnfy 9y ago
  >There is overwhelming evidence of discrimination against people who are in minorities and against women, and as these people are largely excluded from power due to that same discrimination I'd say there's more "overwhelming evidence" of confusion of equality of opportunity with equality of outcome, but this is an unpopular opinion to even suggest, because people like yourself immediately throw around accusations of fascism and white nationalism for asking the wrong questions.
- kr7 9y ago
  You say "we need to protect minorities and women from the white male oppressors" is not an accurate representation of their viewpoint. Then you proceed to say that minorities and women are discriminated against, and we need to do something about that. Who is doing this discrimination, then? You point out that white-skinned people tend to hold power in (traditionally white) Western nations. I would say that my description is accurate.

nnfy 9y ago

Corporations are literally (including my former company) and publicly creating initiatives to hire more minority and female employees. This means that race and gender are now being considered alongside merit, and white males are now at a disadvantage. If this isn't the very definition of bias, I don't know what is. It's the usual conflation of equality of opportunity with equality of outcome. The fact that is that this is racist behavior, but people these days ignore it because it's en vogue.