5 ms·

But what if they hadn't? Japan was invading most of Asia with mass killings along the lines of ISIS and the Nazis. Are you saying ISIS should also be left alone

But what if they hadn't? Japan was invading most of Asia with mass killings along the lines of ISIS and the Nazis. Are you saying ISIS should also be left alone and America not try to stop them? Japanese civilians at the time weren't really innocent. The whole country was working for the war effort, mainly to kill other Asian people.

_nedR 9y ago
>Japanese civilians at the time weren't really innocent. Wow, Its fascinating, the mental gymnastics people perform to rationalise the atrocities their side perpetrates while in the same breath deploring the atrocities committed by the other side.
- abritinthebay 9y ago
  I think the people that say these things have a very poor understanding of what their own governments do in their name. If they didn't they wouldn't paint with such a broad brush.
- allendoerfer 9y ago
  That's what you get, when you give children an identity resolving around your moral high ground, you being the greatest, you bringing freedom to the world, praising veterans who defend you against constant threats (in itself a contradiction), having a romantic relationship with your flag and the list goes on and on. You better not take that away, because what defines you if you do?
AriaMinaei 9y ago
> Japanese civilians at the time weren't really innocent. The whole country was working for the war effort, mainly to kill other Asian people. Wow, this is sounding terrifyingly similar to how suicide bombers justify their targeting of civilians. It's sad to see how easy it is for people who didn't grow up under the dogma of fundamentalist religion can still come to this way of thinking. My friend, I implore you to think really hard about what you said, and take the time to recalibrate your moral compass. I can only hope that at some point in the future, you'll come to think that, war or not, enemy or not, killing civilians is bad. There is no shade of grey. It's only bad.
- fit2rule 9y ago
  From whom do governments gain power? (Hint: its not banks..)
  - AriaMinaei 9y ago
    That's over-simplification on a monumental scale. Governments and societies aren't 1-1 mappings of each other. You shouldn't mistake one as the other. And even if you do, it still doesn't take much thinking to ask: What about children?
    - fit2rule 9y ago
      Sorry, but its not that complicated, either. The people get the governments they deserve - always.
cyphar 9y ago
> Are you saying ISIS should also be left alone and America not try to stop them? As someone who isn't from America (and actually was born in a country which was subsequently bombed by America during peace time) I've never understood this idea that America is somehow justified in the belief that they are the moral arbiters of the world. Who put you in charge? If the answer involves "we have a big military" it's interesting that a country obsessed with the concept of freedom is so willing fall back on "empire" when it's convenient. I guess Americans are still British at heart. > Japanese civilians at the time weren't really innocent. This sentence made my blood boil. How fucking dare you. America bombing civilian residences in order to handle other country's civil wars is not helping anyone. Fuck you. > The whole country was working for the war effort, mainly to kill other Asian people. Interesting rhetoric, given that America spends half a fucking TRILLION dollars a year on the military.
- briandear 9y ago
  Nanjing. Unit 731. Korean comfort women, Korean cultural genocide. How do you propose we win a war against people like that? It took not one, but TWO atomic bombs to force a surrender. Tokyo was prepared to fight to the last person. The only way to win that war was to bomb them into oblivion. That was a choice the Japanese made. The Japanese military engaged in unimaginable atrocities and despite being nearly annihilated militarily, they continued to fight. How do you stop an empire with absolute zero regard for humanity? The Japanese has plenty of opportunities to surrender but they kept fighting and fighting and fighting. As far as America's military budget, the raw numbers are irrelevant, what is relevant is percentage of GDP. The US ranks 11th in the world at 3.3% with 18 countries at 2% or higher. So the "half a trillion" hyperbole is silly. The US also spends a half trillion on government-funded R&D spending and spends a higher percentage (and raw amount) than the entire EU. The US also is ranked number 2 in spending on renewable energy. The US also spends more on swimming pools, airports, and education than any other country. They spend more in health care than anyone else as well. My point, citing half a trillion as some kind of outrageous amount is ridiculous given the US GDP is $18 TRILLION per year. The US also ranks 18th in the world on per capita GDP behind such countries such as Luxembourg, Ireland, Monaco and Brunei. The US military is highly visible and obviously subject to a lot of criticism, but how many people talk about the French Army's frequent and continual adventures in Africa? France has forward deployed troops all across sub-Saharan Africa. How about the British Army in the Baltics and Poland? The British Army in Kenya and Sierra Leon? It's fair enough to debate military tactics, however acting like the United States is some kind of military outlier just isn't supported by the facts. On a per capita basis and as a percentage of GDP, the US military isn't all that remarkable in terms of expenditures.
psyc 9y ago
Are you saying ISIS should also be left alone and America not try to stop them Absolutely yes, I'll say that. ISIS was created by the US bumbling about in Iraq, just like al Queda before it was created by the US intriguing in Afghanistan. But I don't expect the US will ever learn that bombs are the clumsiest of tools for shaping human history.

_nedR 9y ago

>Japanese civilians at the time weren't really innocent. Wow, Its fascinating, the mental gymnastics people perform to rationalise the atrocities their side perpetrates while in the same breath deploring the atrocities committed by the other side.

abritinthebay 9y ago
I think the people that say these things have a very poor understanding of what their own governments do in their name. If they didn't they wouldn't paint with such a broad brush.
allendoerfer 9y ago
That's what you get, when you give children an identity resolving around your moral high ground, you being the greatest, you bringing freedom to the world, praising veterans who defend you against constant threats (in itself a contradiction), having a romantic relationship with your flag and the list goes on and on. You better not take that away, because what defines you if you do?

AriaMinaei 9y ago

> Japanese civilians at the time weren't really innocent. The whole country was working for the war effort, mainly to kill other Asian people. Wow, this is sounding terrifyingly similar to how suicide bombers justify their targeting of civilians. It's sad to see how easy it is for people who didn't grow up under the dogma of fundamentalist religion can still come to this way of thinking. My friend, I implore you to think really hard about what you said, and take the time to recalibrate your moral compass. I can only hope that at some point in the future, you'll come to think that, war or not, enemy or not, killing civilians is bad. There is no shade of grey. It's only bad.

fit2rule 9y ago
From whom do governments gain power? (Hint: its not banks..)
- AriaMinaei 9y ago
  That's over-simplification on a monumental scale. Governments and societies aren't 1-1 mappings of each other. You shouldn't mistake one as the other. And even if you do, it still doesn't take much thinking to ask: What about children?
  - fit2rule 9y ago
    Sorry, but its not that complicated, either. The people get the governments they deserve - always.

cyphar 9y ago

> Are you saying ISIS should also be left alone and America not try to stop them? As someone who isn't from America (and actually was born in a country which was subsequently bombed by America during peace time) I've never understood this idea that America is somehow justified in the belief that they are the moral arbiters of the world. Who put you in charge? If the answer involves "we have a big military" it's interesting that a country obsessed with the concept of freedom is so willing fall back on "empire" when it's convenient. I guess Americans are still British at heart. > Japanese civilians at the time weren't really innocent. This sentence made my blood boil. How fucking dare you. America bombing civilian residences in order to handle other country's civil wars is not helping anyone. Fuck you. > The whole country was working for the war effort, mainly to kill other Asian people. Interesting rhetoric, given that America spends half a fucking TRILLION dollars a year on the military.

briandear 9y ago
Nanjing. Unit 731. Korean comfort women, Korean cultural genocide. How do you propose we win a war against people like that? It took not one, but TWO atomic bombs to force a surrender. Tokyo was prepared to fight to the last person. The only way to win that war was to bomb them into oblivion. That was a choice the Japanese made. The Japanese military engaged in unimaginable atrocities and despite being nearly annihilated militarily, they continued to fight. How do you stop an empire with absolute zero regard for humanity? The Japanese has plenty of opportunities to surrender but they kept fighting and fighting and fighting. As far as America's military budget, the raw numbers are irrelevant, what is relevant is percentage of GDP. The US ranks 11th in the world at 3.3% with 18 countries at 2% or higher. So the "half a trillion" hyperbole is silly. The US also spends a half trillion on government-funded R&D spending and spends a higher percentage (and raw amount) than the entire EU. The US also is ranked number 2 in spending on renewable energy. The US also spends more on swimming pools, airports, and education than any other country. They spend more in health care than anyone else as well. My point, citing half a trillion as some kind of outrageous amount is ridiculous given the US GDP is $18 TRILLION per year. The US also ranks 18th in the world on per capita GDP behind such countries such as Luxembourg, Ireland, Monaco and Brunei. The US military is highly visible and obviously subject to a lot of criticism, but how many people talk about the French Army's frequent and continual adventures in Africa? France has forward deployed troops all across sub-Saharan Africa. How about the British Army in the Baltics and Poland? The British Army in Kenya and Sierra Leon? It's fair enough to debate military tactics, however acting like the United States is some kind of military outlier just isn't supported by the facts. On a per capita basis and as a percentage of GDP, the US military isn't all that remarkable in terms of expenditures.

psyc 9y ago

Are you saying ISIS should also be left alone and America not try to stop them Absolutely yes, I'll say that. ISIS was created by the US bumbling about in Iraq, just like al Queda before it was created by the US intriguing in Afghanistan. But I don't expect the US will ever learn that bombs are the clumsiest of tools for shaping human history.