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But it did lead to human rights improvements. As far as I know, many (most?) Chinese people can freely move around and visit other countries. No Chinese schol
by yongjik 10y ago
But it did lead to human rights improvements. As far as I know, many (most?) Chinese people can freely move around and visit other countries. No Chinese scholar was dragged onto streets by government-sponsored teenage thugs in decades. Some of them even criticize the government occasionally, although if you do that too loudly you may still go to prison.
So, there was a huge improvement since the days of Cultural Revolution. Just not enough. And if North Korea achieves the same level of human rights that is available in China now, it will be considered a vast success by everybody who cares.
Strangely, some people seem to maintain that freedom is either absolute everything or nothing. But you don't have to equate everything as "still non-free" in order to fight for more freedom and justice.
- jaredklewis 10y agoWell put. "All or nothing" is poison, and by that standard, Western democracies also fall in the category of "nothing." For the massive human rights gains in China to be so thoughtlessly dismissed is frustrating.
- Aloha 10y agoAgreed. If anyone is foolish enough to think china will adopt democracy in the guise of America or Europe is foolish, their culture is so different as so to not even be understandable by most westerners. I'd agree that china is partially democratic and free - insomuch as there are limited methods of redress, and some criticism of the government is allowed, provided you don't attack the foundations of the government.. and every year little by little the Chinese government allows a little more criticisms and adds more methods of redress. They'll make it in my lifetime, but again, it won't look like us in the west.
- rat87 10y ago> If anyone is foolish enough to think china will adopt democracy in the guise of America or Europe is foolish, their culture is so different as so to not even be understandable by most westerners. I think that's wrong and patronizing, everyone is capable of democracy.
- ido 10y agoAloha did say China will become a free democracy in their lifetime, only that it will not be the western model of such.
- xiaoma 10y ago>"If anyone is foolish enough to think china will adopt democracy in the guise of America or Europe is foolish, their culture is so different as so to not even be understandable by most westerners." Taiwan is a clear counter-example to this ridiculous claim. In many ways, ranging from traditional religions to the writing system, Taiwan has preserved more traditional Chinese culture than the PRC has. None of this has stopped Taiwan from becoming a modern democracy with citizen referendums and more tolerance of peaceful protest than any English speaking country I know of.
- Camillo 10y agoDidn't most of those human rights improvements precede economic liberalization? People are talking as if China joined the WTO right after Mao's death. That's not how it went.