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My OS (macOS), laptop, router, gaming console, watch, camera, computer, phone, tablet, TV, set-top box, GPS unit and more run commercial software. They all incl

My OS (macOS), laptop, router, gaming console, watch, camera, computer, phone, tablet, TV, set-top box, GPS unit and more run commercial software. They all include "free software" somewhere in the stack. Whether it's the Linux kernel, uclibc, busybox, libpng/libjpeg/libtiff or Webkit, it's there. It's much more prevalent than people think, partly because it is rarely discussed or acknowledged. If we look at web applications, you can be assured that the vast majority of them use free software somewhere in the stack. It's usually the case that the majority of dependencies in such products are "free".

nickpsecurity 10y ago
"If we look at web applications, you can be assured that the vast majority of them use free software somewhere in the stack." There's a difference between them being proprietary software and using some free components somewhere. You about to suggest Windows ecosystem is open or free because they used some open-source code in Windows somewhere? Or IBM's mainframes are open because they can run Linux VM's? Or the Facebook platform itself is open since they use and contribute so much FOSS? They're all still proprietary with the motivations, methods, and limitations that come with it. They can use whatever available components they want to build proprietary software. It's still the dominant model, though. That's why I'm constantly running into systems I have no source for, can't modify, and can't extend to deal with their horrible UX. They're all closed to me even if some OSS or FOSS is inside.
pjmlp 10y ago
Your OS has a tiny layer of FOSS, which was partly part of NeXTSTEP and what Apple needs for UNIX compatibility. Everything that makes OS X special is proprietary.
- nickpsecurity 10y ago
  Exactly. The core that was open-source, but not FOSS per FSF, is a system almost no Mac user will directly use or develop apps for. The experience Mac users get is almost totally proprietary by Apple. It's not only theirs in copyright: they patent every aspect they can to sue anyone doing something similar. Samsung will happily attest to that. Mac OS is about as non-FOSS as it gets. Right up there with Windows on proprietary components, lock-in, and patent suits by owner. At least they're doing a nice, open-source project with LLVM. I'll give them credit where it's due.

nickpsecurity 10y ago

"If we look at web applications, you can be assured that the vast majority of them use free software somewhere in the stack." There's a difference between them being proprietary software and using some free components somewhere. You about to suggest Windows ecosystem is open or free because they used some open-source code in Windows somewhere? Or IBM's mainframes are open because they can run Linux VM's? Or the Facebook platform itself is open since they use and contribute so much FOSS? They're all still proprietary with the motivations, methods, and limitations that come with it. They can use whatever available components they want to build proprietary software. It's still the dominant model, though. That's why I'm constantly running into systems I have no source for, can't modify, and can't extend to deal with their horrible UX. They're all closed to me even if some OSS or FOSS is inside.

pjmlp 10y ago

Your OS has a tiny layer of FOSS, which was partly part of NeXTSTEP and what Apple needs for UNIX compatibility. Everything that makes OS X special is proprietary.

nickpsecurity 10y ago
Exactly. The core that was open-source, but not FOSS per FSF, is a system almost no Mac user will directly use or develop apps for. The experience Mac users get is almost totally proprietary by Apple. It's not only theirs in copyright: they patent every aspect they can to sue anyone doing something similar. Samsung will happily attest to that. Mac OS is about as non-FOSS as it gets. Right up there with Windows on proprietary components, lock-in, and patent suits by owner. At least they're doing a nice, open-source project with LLVM. I'll give them credit where it's due.