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> TLDR: In many Germany's neighboring countries it is common to know German on a decent level - at least if you plan to work in Germany. If there was I second l

> TLDR: In many Germany's neighboring countries it is common to know German on a decent level - at least if you plan to work in Germany. If there was I second language from a neighboring country in which work should be accepted, this should rather be French (for France and Belgium) instead of English. Sure, e.g. I did myself one year of German courses (I forgot most of it, because it was long time ago). In my opinion the point is to make attractive world-class talent for working in Germany, even for short periods of time. I.e. the "nationalist barrier", that is still very strong in Germany and also e.g. in France, in my opinion hurts badly IT companies (fortunately, now is a much smaller problem versus how it was 15-20 years ago, when it was very difficult to work in Germany or France with just English). In my opinion, unless European Union countries become more pragmatic, accepting the English as the "IT language", or the handicap for hiring world-class talent will still be a issue, for both the internal EU job market, and also for getting international talent (e.g. a talented Indian would try first to work in the USA or the UK just because he already did English in the school, being ha handicap having to learn French or German for a temporary job).

wolfgke 9y ago
You explicitly talked of "neighboring countries" of Germany - here I provided evidence that the situation is different. > being ha handicap having to learn French or German for a temporary job Here I rather see the problem: The people only want a temporary job in Germany - so they see Germany just as a stepping stone for their career. If I were a staff manager at a company, I would be very cautious to hire such a person, since in Germany it is seen as a desirable trait that a person does not switch jobs every few years. There are "legal period of notice" which hold for both sides: An employer can after some probation period not simply fire an employee without a period of notice, but the other implication does also hold: After the probation period an employee cannot simply quit the job without a period of notice, too.
- faragon 9y ago
  Well, for neighboring countries I meant EU countries. You can have near unlimited low-qualification worker supply from your strictly speaking neighboring countries, but not necessarily world-class skilled workers, specially, if those workers willing to move from one country to another can pick options with less conditions. Also, you can have potential supply, not willing to move, just because of nationalist stuff (forced "integration") or other elements that could make a country less attractive than another. Don't get me wrong: I would love Germany, and all EU countries getting as much talent as possible, from the internal EU area, and also from other countries as well. I'm worried about nationalism and the lack of pragmatism ruining job flexibility and business attractiveness, so European companies have such a huge handicap for competing in the international market.
  - wolfgke 9y ago
    > Well, for neighboring countries I meant EU countries. There are only three EU countries (UK, Ireland, Malta) where English is an official language - soon there will be only two. For comparison: German is official language in four EU countries (Germany, Austria, Belgium, Luxembourg) and French in three (France, Belgium, Luxembourg). Now let's look at data for language knowledge in the EU: > https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Languages_of_the_European_Union&oldid=776168976#Knowledge https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Languages_of_the_... The most common first language in the EU is German. Other important first languages are English, French and Italian (this table has not yet included the fact that soon for English this number has to be much lower). Totally (in number of native and non-native speakers) English (51%) looks more important than German (32%) or French (26%). Now I tell you an observation: When (EU) people are talking that they know English as an additional language, this often means "really bad English" (just try to converse with Italians in English ;-) ). This is clearly not sufficient knowledge for using English in a professional environment. On the other hand when they claim to know German or French as an additional language, this typically promises much better language skills than if such a claim is made for English by some person. So I would argue that "people knowing enough of the language such that in, say, half a year they could use this language in a professional environment" for English the "51%" must be made smaller by a lot, while for German and French a similar correction should be much more minor. Really: On a wordwide scale English might have a large role, but if you talk about EU, there are other languages (in particular German and French) that are at least of similar importance "for EU purposes" (just as in South America Spanish and Portuguese are the important languages and not English) - and with Brexit their importance will surely even increase.
    - faragon 9y ago
      English is the lingua franca in IT, worldwide. Everyone in IT knows it, to some extent. And even general population get English as second or third language. English teaching is generalized at developed countries, while German it is not. P.S. My English is also "bad", being a Spaniard myself, but enough for working in English in IT (not for writing novels, obviously).

wolfgke 9y ago

You explicitly talked of "neighboring countries" of Germany - here I provided evidence that the situation is different. > being ha handicap having to learn French or German for a temporary job Here I rather see the problem: The people only want a temporary job in Germany - so they see Germany just as a stepping stone for their career. If I were a staff manager at a company, I would be very cautious to hire such a person, since in Germany it is seen as a desirable trait that a person does not switch jobs every few years. There are "legal period of notice" which hold for both sides: An employer can after some probation period not simply fire an employee without a period of notice, but the other implication does also hold: After the probation period an employee cannot simply quit the job without a period of notice, too.

faragon 9y ago
Well, for neighboring countries I meant EU countries. You can have near unlimited low-qualification worker supply from your strictly speaking neighboring countries, but not necessarily world-class skilled workers, specially, if those workers willing to move from one country to another can pick options with less conditions. Also, you can have potential supply, not willing to move, just because of nationalist stuff (forced "integration") or other elements that could make a country less attractive than another. Don't get me wrong: I would love Germany, and all EU countries getting as much talent as possible, from the internal EU area, and also from other countries as well. I'm worried about nationalism and the lack of pragmatism ruining job flexibility and business attractiveness, so European companies have such a huge handicap for competing in the international market.
- wolfgke 9y ago
  > Well, for neighboring countries I meant EU countries. There are only three EU countries (UK, Ireland, Malta) where English is an official language - soon there will be only two. For comparison: German is official language in four EU countries (Germany, Austria, Belgium, Luxembourg) and French in three (France, Belgium, Luxembourg). Now let's look at data for language knowledge in the EU: > https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Languages_of_the_European_Union&oldid=776168976#Knowledge https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Languages_of_the_... The most common first language in the EU is German. Other important first languages are English, French and Italian (this table has not yet included the fact that soon for English this number has to be much lower). Totally (in number of native and non-native speakers) English (51%) looks more important than German (32%) or French (26%). Now I tell you an observation: When (EU) people are talking that they know English as an additional language, this often means "really bad English" (just try to converse with Italians in English ;-) ). This is clearly not sufficient knowledge for using English in a professional environment. On the other hand when they claim to know German or French as an additional language, this typically promises much better language skills than if such a claim is made for English by some person. So I would argue that "people knowing enough of the language such that in, say, half a year they could use this language in a professional environment" for English the "51%" must be made smaller by a lot, while for German and French a similar correction should be much more minor. Really: On a wordwide scale English might have a large role, but if you talk about EU, there are other languages (in particular German and French) that are at least of similar importance "for EU purposes" (just as in South America Spanish and Portuguese are the important languages and not English) - and with Brexit their importance will surely even increase.
  - faragon 9y ago
    English is the lingua franca in IT, worldwide. Everyone in IT knows it, to some extent. And even general population get English as second or third language. English teaching is generalized at developed countries, while German it is not. P.S. My English is also "bad", being a Spaniard myself, but enough for working in English in IT (not for writing novels, obviously).