4 ms·

This is also discussed elsewhere in this thread. Why reinvent the wheel just to get around people who are messing up the old wheel? Plus, any new network is s

This is also discussed elsewhere in this thread. Why reinvent the wheel just to get around people who are messing up the old wheel? Plus, any new network is susceptible to the same sort of lobbying and moneyed interests plaguing the existing internet. We will need to be forever vigilant in order to maintain our right to have equal access to data. Some have noted that even a constitutional amendment guaranteeing net neutrality rights could be rolled back, since that has precedent under rolling back prohibition.

nickpsecurity 9y ago
"Plus, any new network is susceptible to the same sort of lobbying and moneyed interests plaguing the existing internet." BOOM! If corrupt politicians are the problem, then they'll be the problem no matter what you do if it threatens the interests of incumbents paying them. So, you have to fight the real battle.
- studentrob 9y ago
  I don't know that I'd call it corrupt. I may be in the minority here.. I feel politicians ought to seek expert advice, and that's naturally going to come from lobbyists. "Lobbying" is a bad word these days. I don't know why. Our vote will kick lobbyists' butts any day. Barney Frank says so and I believe him, "If the voters have a position, the votes will kick money's rear end any time. I've never met a politician-- I've been in the legislative bodies for 40 years now-- who, choosing between a significant opinion in his or her district and a number of campaign contributors, doesn't go with the district." [1] Without the vote, politicians are out of their favorite job. This was posted on HN awhile back, Frank's advice on how to deal with the Trump admin [2]. I think it bears repeating, particularly in the face of this net neutrality debate. [1] http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/461/transcript http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/461/t... [2] https://mic.com/articles/167878/barney-frank-heres-how-to-not-waste-your-time-pressuring-lawmakers#.zi7HkdrWv https://mic.com/articles/167878/barney-frank-heres-how-to-no...
  - nickpsecurity 9y ago
    "I don't know that I'd call it corrupt. I may be in the minority here.. I feel politicians ought to seek expert advice, and that's naturally going to come from lobbyists." The politicians receive campaign money from these companies. They then do what's in these companies' interests even when it harms their voters they're responsible to. That's corruption. Here's a nice article with plenty of details I just found: https://www.publicintegrity.org/2014/08/28/15404/how-big-telecom-smothers-city-run-broadband https://www.publicintegrity.org/2014/08/28/15404/how-big-tel...
    - studentrob 9y ago
      > politicians receive campaign money from these companies I get that. I think the problem has more to do with the Citizens United + Speechnow court decisions [1] which decided that corporations are people, and therefore can donate as much as they like to super PACs that are not directly run by the candidate's team (as if that really matters). You're never going to completely remove money from politics. You don't want it to be an unpaid position, otherwise, only the ultra wealthy would be able to do it. And, you don't want it to be oversubsidized by corporations like it is now as a result of the CU decision. Regardless, the vote still beats the dollar. It becomes more difficult to get the word out as a smaller player, but we all still have the ability to vote, and that means something. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC#Super_PACs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC#Super_P...
      - nickpsecurity 9y ago
        "I get that. I think the problem has more to do with the Citizens United + Speechnow court decisions [1] which decided that corporations are people, and therefore can donate as much as they like to super PACs that are not directly run by the candidate's team (as if that really matters)." Yeah, problems like that cause it. My solution is a combination of (a) only individual voters can donate money to political campaigns, (b) it's limited to a specific amount, and (c) any law passed on behalf of a donor against the stated interests of the constituency is nullified by default. I also want to attempt to bring back nullification of these corrupt laws in federal courts, up to Supreme Court. It's a risky concept judges don't like but ideal tool to deal with laws passed by corruption. They're already supposed to fight that under checks-and-balances concept.

nickpsecurity 9y ago

"Plus, any new network is susceptible to the same sort of lobbying and moneyed interests plaguing the existing internet." BOOM! If corrupt politicians are the problem, then they'll be the problem no matter what you do if it threatens the interests of incumbents paying them. So, you have to fight the real battle.

studentrob 9y ago
I don't know that I'd call it corrupt. I may be in the minority here.. I feel politicians ought to seek expert advice, and that's naturally going to come from lobbyists. "Lobbying" is a bad word these days. I don't know why. Our vote will kick lobbyists' butts any day. Barney Frank says so and I believe him, "If the voters have a position, the votes will kick money's rear end any time. I've never met a politician-- I've been in the legislative bodies for 40 years now-- who, choosing between a significant opinion in his or her district and a number of campaign contributors, doesn't go with the district." [1] Without the vote, politicians are out of their favorite job. This was posted on HN awhile back, Frank's advice on how to deal with the Trump admin [2]. I think it bears repeating, particularly in the face of this net neutrality debate. [1] http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/461/transcript http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/461/t... [2] https://mic.com/articles/167878/barney-frank-heres-how-to-not-waste-your-time-pressuring-lawmakers#.zi7HkdrWv https://mic.com/articles/167878/barney-frank-heres-how-to-no...
- nickpsecurity 9y ago
  "I don't know that I'd call it corrupt. I may be in the minority here.. I feel politicians ought to seek expert advice, and that's naturally going to come from lobbyists." The politicians receive campaign money from these companies. They then do what's in these companies' interests even when it harms their voters they're responsible to. That's corruption. Here's a nice article with plenty of details I just found: https://www.publicintegrity.org/2014/08/28/15404/how-big-telecom-smothers-city-run-broadband https://www.publicintegrity.org/2014/08/28/15404/how-big-tel...
  - studentrob 9y ago
    > politicians receive campaign money from these companies I get that. I think the problem has more to do with the Citizens United + Speechnow court decisions [1] which decided that corporations are people, and therefore can donate as much as they like to super PACs that are not directly run by the candidate's team (as if that really matters). You're never going to completely remove money from politics. You don't want it to be an unpaid position, otherwise, only the ultra wealthy would be able to do it. And, you don't want it to be oversubsidized by corporations like it is now as a result of the CU decision. Regardless, the vote still beats the dollar. It becomes more difficult to get the word out as a smaller player, but we all still have the ability to vote, and that means something. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC#Super_PACs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC#Super_P...
    - nickpsecurity 9y ago
      "I get that. I think the problem has more to do with the Citizens United + Speechnow court decisions [1] which decided that corporations are people, and therefore can donate as much as they like to super PACs that are not directly run by the candidate's team (as if that really matters)." Yeah, problems like that cause it. My solution is a combination of (a) only individual voters can donate money to political campaigns, (b) it's limited to a specific amount, and (c) any law passed on behalf of a donor against the stated interests of the constituency is nullified by default. I also want to attempt to bring back nullification of these corrupt laws in federal courts, up to Supreme Court. It's a risky concept judges don't like but ideal tool to deal with laws passed by corruption. They're already supposed to fight that under checks-and-balances concept.