4 ms·

Note that the article uses "middle class" and "middle income" interchangeably, but in some countries class is not directly related to income. So when it says "t

by m-i-l 10y ago

Note that the article uses "middle class" and "middle income" interchangeably, but in some countries class is not directly related to income. So when it says "that the middle class rose in the Netherlands and Spain, and soared in Ireland and the U.K.", at least for the UK they mean "middle income" not necessarily "middle class".

Lio 10y ago
I was just about to make this point too. What this article refers to as "middle class" in Britain would probably be referred to as "working class". To confusing things further, in Britain referring to something or someone as a bit "middle class" would mean it was somewhat posh. Eg Rich lawyer or doctor? Middle class. CEO of a FTSE 100? Middle class. ...and if you really want to go down the rabbit hole, when we say "public school" we mean a very middle class group of private schools, such as Eton or Harrow.
- TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
  The UK's class system is impossible to summarise precisely, but I think most people would consider Eton and Harrow as upper class. It's where future world leaders, powerful civil servants, royals and aristocrats, significant politicians, and captains of industry go to be educated. (And, not incidentally, to be told how special they are.) Middle class is more the common professionals - managers, small business owners, doctors, lawyers, accountants, engineers, architects, academics, creatives. The marker used to be a degree or some success running a business, but the degree part has been devalued now. Working class is everyone else. Even if they work in an office. Put even more crudely the upper class creams off the money, the middle class keeps the money machine running, and the working class does the grunt work. Income doesn't correlate neatly with these groups. It's possible - not even as an outlier - to be middle class and working in the arts with very little money, or be working class and earning six figures.
moomin 10y ago
Indeed it's not clear America has ever had much of a middle class. As PG says, 20th Century America had a large working class population who enjoyed middle incomes, fuelled by America's huge industrial expansion. That expansion is now over. In my opinion, what's happened has been quite toxic. People have been given the illusion of social progress whilst true opportunity has been concentrated in a very small population. Those that want their country back have missed the point: it was never theirs in the first place.
- lawpoop 10y ago
  The scholar in me admits that you have a point, but the practicist in me says, who cares? Let's use this narrative to get the basic social guarantees that all those poor and middle class people have in Europe-- education, health care, retirement, etc.

by m-i-l 10y ago

Lio 10y ago

I was just about to make this point too. What this article refers to as "middle class" in Britain would probably be referred to as "working class". To confusing things further, in Britain referring to something or someone as a bit "middle class" would mean it was somewhat posh. Eg Rich lawyer or doctor? Middle class. CEO of a FTSE 100? Middle class. ...and if you really want to go down the rabbit hole, when we say "public school" we mean a very middle class group of private schools, such as Eton or Harrow.

TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
The UK's class system is impossible to summarise precisely, but I think most people would consider Eton and Harrow as upper class. It's where future world leaders, powerful civil servants, royals and aristocrats, significant politicians, and captains of industry go to be educated. (And, not incidentally, to be told how special they are.) Middle class is more the common professionals - managers, small business owners, doctors, lawyers, accountants, engineers, architects, academics, creatives. The marker used to be a degree or some success running a business, but the degree part has been devalued now. Working class is everyone else. Even if they work in an office. Put even more crudely the upper class creams off the money, the middle class keeps the money machine running, and the working class does the grunt work. Income doesn't correlate neatly with these groups. It's possible - not even as an outlier - to be middle class and working in the arts with very little money, or be working class and earning six figures.

moomin 10y ago

Indeed it's not clear America has ever had much of a middle class. As PG says, 20th Century America had a large working class population who enjoyed middle incomes, fuelled by America's huge industrial expansion. That expansion is now over. In my opinion, what's happened has been quite toxic. People have been given the illusion of social progress whilst true opportunity has been concentrated in a very small population. Those that want their country back have missed the point: it was never theirs in the first place.

lawpoop 10y ago
The scholar in me admits that you have a point, but the practicist in me says, who cares? Let's use this narrative to get the basic social guarantees that all those poor and middle class people have in Europe-- education, health care, retirement, etc.