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Spread the politics of freedom and capitalism. What is happening in North Korea is the logical outcome of the theories of Socialism.
by JeffL 16y ago
Spread the politics of freedom and capitalism. What is happening in North Korea is the logical outcome of the theories of Socialism.
- ugh 16y agoIt obviously isn’t. There are several age old European parties with roots in socialism and they are all pretty harmless. I don’t think simplistic portrayals of history and ideologies – like yours – are very helpful. Here is my version: Identify which concepts, ideas and methods turned North Korea to the state it is today. Discourage the use of those concepts, ideas and methods whenever they are proposed. This is probably best done by pointing out errors or inconsistencies or by presenting alternatives.
- Tichy 16y agoWhat makes you think it obviously isn't? That such parties exist doesn't prove anything unless they get to power.
- ugh 16y agoUhm … http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Social_Democratic_Party_of_Germany http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Social_Democrati... They even have bona fide anti-tyranny credentials: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Social_Democratic_Party_of_Germany#Era_of_national_socialism_.2F_SoPaDe_.281933.E2.80.931945.29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Social_Democrati... And that’s just one example. I should probably clarify that I really have no qualms with the first sentence of the grandparent’s comment. A generalization, maybe, but markets do work great in many situations and freedom created tremendous wealth and happiness. I just think that you shouldn’t use the term “Socialism” in the way the grandparent did. It just has too much history and too many ideas, concepts and methods connected with it.
- Tichy 16y agoThey are pretty far removed from communism, though. Isn't what they aim for more like "social insurance"? Insurance seems to be a concept that can be reconciled with capitalism.
- ugh 16y agoToday, sure. Not in the past, not until the late 1950s, even. All I wanted to say is that they started out with Socialism and didn’t turn everything they touched into North Korea. Which means that tyranny is not the logical consequence of Socialism.
- tome 16y agoSeveral are currently or have recently been in power.
- jules 16y agoUm, they regularly are in power. For example last time socialist parties got 65/150 seats in parliament in the netherlands. Liberals got 25/150 seats. Parties based on religion got 47/150 seats. Note that even liberals are more left wing in many ways than the democrats in the US, but the socialists are not at all like the typical "whaaaa, commies" person imagines them. At least we still seem to be going fine.
- riffic 16y agofreedom and socialism as philosophical theories are not diametrically opposed.
- Tichy 16y agoPleas give me at least a hint as to how to reconcile the concepts then?
- McP 16y agohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism
- viggity 16y agoHow exactly can I be free when the government - under the threat of force - extracts money that I have earned to give it to another third party?
- rubinelli 16y agoAre you saying that no taxpayer is free?
- inferno0069 16y agoHow can I be free with no money with which to purchase food/shelter/education/materials? Even Milton Friedman was in favor of redistributing wealth: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_income_tax http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_income_tax
- FlorinAndrei 16y agoThese days, whenever I hear the word "socialism", I automatically stop listening and move across the room to start a different discussion. It's on the same list with "flat earth", "autism-causing vaccines" and so forth. EDIT: I'm sorry to say, but it seems like the majority of people in the US use this word a lot without having any idea what it really means. It's become empty, a visceral cry, bypassing rational thought entirely. This too shall pass, I guess, but for now it's pretty sad.
- rbanffy 16y agoIt's actually worse. They equate socialism with dictatorships, completely ignoring right-wing dictatorships ans socialist democracies.